# Job Applicants - Try not to be an idiot on your first impression **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 24, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257 "2009-02-24T19:51:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/101 "2009-02-25T19:46:04Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > …or they actually have the qualifications and are so overqualified that they’ll expect immediate promotions and raises, or will jump ship at the first opportunity. Or, like the example appears, they are a recent graduate with no experience looking for entry-level experience. If they did indeed “jump ship” or expect raises and promotions, one would hope that your company has internal advancement opportunities and considers internal employee experience and development to be valuable to the company as a whole, so that employee “jumps ship” within your company and creates a more experienced and valuable workforce. Or, you could be an HR drone cookie-cuttering openings with the cheapest expendable labor you can buy. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/102 "2009-02-25T20:12:36Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Yeesh, this post made Mr. :rolleyes: do a backflip. If you want sonething from someone, then you have to play by the rules they’ve set up to get it. You can’t just go march into a potential employer and demand to be hired based on the fact that you spent money on college and have good hygiene. The world doesn’t owe you a living. And I think you’ve misconstrued the argument being presented. **Lizard** didn’t demand anything. He basically said “Applying online is demeaning and I refuse to do it.” Now, you can argue that this is an ineffective way to get a job. But he’s never said he demanded a job from a company he wasn’t even bothering to apply to. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/103 "2009-02-25T20:39:41Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > Or, like the example appears, they are a recent graduate with no experience looking for entry-level experience. If they did indeed “jump ship” or expect raises and promotions, one would hope that your company has internal advancement opportunities and considers internal employee experience and development to be valuable to the company as a whole, so that employee “jumps ship” within your company and creates a more experienced and valuable workforce. As I stated earlier, we don’t have any other opportunities for advancement because the component of our company in Yemen isn’t large. At most, if they kill their supervisor, they can move to that position. He isn’t leaving it voluntarily because there is no room for promotion for him. As an oil company, people with degrees in computer science have limited opportunities. > [@](#): > > Or, you could be an HR drone cookie-cuttering openings with the cheapest expendable labor you can buy. We pay our local people huge amounts of money. The majority of cases are more than 30 times the national average (not quite equivalent wages to those in North America, but close enough that 15 years ago when I started in the industy I’d be happy to have it.) They are the equivalent to rock stars in their country. It is like winning the lottery to work for us. Which explains why people with advanced degrees want to work for foreign oil companies. But it doesn’t change the fact that I don’t need a guy with a Master’s working as a workstation tech. I need a guy who will pick up a computer, put it on a clients desk, load some software, and then fix it if it doesn’t work. A guy with a legitimate Master’s degree isn’t going to be happy to do that for long. A guy who went to a technical school for a couple of years is a perfect fit. Different people and training for different roles. It seem people are having a tough time figuring that out. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/104 "2009-02-25T21:03:07Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Oh, even better: I was looking through a directory of California Enrolled Agents, as we were looking for someone to contact (duh). Some dude’s email was something like: [DOMDADDY6969@HOTMAIL.COM](mailto:DOMDADDY6969@HOTMAIL.COM) > > Published. In a professional magazine/directory thing. Hey, now! It’s entirely possible that that guy is father to a kid named Dominick, and was born on June 9, 1969. Highly unlikely, but possible… ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/105 "2009-02-25T21:25:20Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Yeesh, this post made Mr. :rolleyes: do a backflip. If you want something from someone, then you have to play by the rules they’ve set up to get it. You can’t just go march into a potential employer and demand to be hired based on the fact that you spent money on college and have good hygiene. The world doesn’t owe you a living. Quite the little Malthusian, aren’t you? Actually, I have said nothing about “demanding to be hired,” I said “demanding to be treated like a human being,” i.e., with basic decency and respect, and not as disposable. But I guess people who think like you do serve a purpose. After all, the Labor movement would have never existed without you. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/106 "2009-02-25T21:37:18Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > And I think you’ve misconstrued the argument being presented. **Lizard** didn’t demand anything. He basically said “Applying online is demeaning and I refuse to do it.” > Now, you can argue that this is an ineffective way to get a job. But he’s never said he demanded a job from a company he wasn’t even bothering to apply to. I didn’t misconstrue shit. I think it’s bad enough he demands a nondemeaning way to get a job. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/107 "2009-02-25T21:45:25Z")
> [@Lizard](#): > > Quite the little Malthusian, aren’t you? Actually, I have said nothing about “demanding to be hired,” I said “demanding to be treated like a human being,” i.e., with basic decency and respect, and not as disposable. But I guess people who think like you do serve a purpose. After all, the Labor movement would have never existed without you. Your characterization of online application as dehumanizing makes you look like an entitled little bitch that I wouldn’t hire to shovel snow. Good luck in your job search good sir. Don’t expect to rise very far in your career without changing your attitude. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/108 "2009-02-25T21:45:35Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I didn’t misconstrue shit. I think it’s bad enough he demands a nondemeaning way to get a job. Screw you. I, too, refuse to send things into the online black hole. You get nothing out of it, and half the time they aren’t even hiring. The other half, they simply have someone already and are just going through the motions. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/109 "2009-02-25T21:55:14Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Screw you. I, too, refuse to send things into the online black hole. You get nothing out of it, and half the time they aren’t even hiring. The other half, they simply have someone already and are just going through the motions. I wouldn’t hire you to clean my cats’ litter box. ---
**Author:** ![Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bites_when_provoked/32/18073_2.png) [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bites_When_Provoked)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/110 "2009-02-25T22:05:07Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I wouldn’t hire you to clean my cats’ litter box. I bet the pay is crap anyway. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/111 "2009-02-25T22:07:00Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > As I stated earlier, we don’t have any other opportunities for advancement because the component of our company in Yemen isn’t large. At most, if they kill their supervisor, they can move to that position. I thought that was legal in Yemen. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/112 "2009-02-25T22:08:13Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I didn’t misconstrue shit. I think it’s bad enough he demands a nondemeaning way to get a job. You, I suppose, make your applicants post a youtube video of themselves singing, “I’m a Little Teapot.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/113 "2009-02-25T22:11:02Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > You, I suppose, make your applicants post a youtube video of themselves singing, “I’m a Little Teapot.” Don’t be silly. It’s the Barney \*I Love You \*song. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/114 "2009-02-25T22:15:25Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > You, I suppose, make your applicants post a youtube video of themselves singing, “I’m a Little Teapot.” Yer damn right. And those motherfuckers better SMILE, too. Our friend Lizard is like the guy who wants to pay 30 grand for a maserati. If maserati isn’t selling enough cars, they’ll lower the price, maybe to something he’s willing to pay. If they are selling enough at the present price, then he just needs to shut up; he doesn’t get to have a maserati for 30 grand just because he wants one. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/115 "2009-02-26T01:08:44Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Screw you. I, too, refuse to send things into the online black hole. You get nothing out of it, and half the time they aren’t even hiring. The other half, they simply have someone already and are just going through the motions. This was reported, but it’s too mild to constitute abuse. **Gfactor** General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/116 "2009-02-26T01:35:55Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Oh, God, yes. I’m the secretarial services and word processing manager for a fair-sized Manhattan law firm, so I’m involved in quite a bit of secretarial hiring. I see quite a bit of this. And even when I don’t, I’ll get an e-mail from some secretary who’s going to be late or out sick, and it will be from some address like “[HQQTRS@freebie.com](mailto:HQQTRS@freebie.com)”, or (more likely) “[luvzfuzzykutekittens@makemesick.com](mailto:luvzfuzzykutekittens@makemesick.com)”. The e-mail will say “hi! I’m not feeling well today and won’t be coming in.” If I’m lucky, she’ll include her actual real name somewhere so I’ll know exactly which cute kitty lover won’t be in today. Sweet jebus … I have a professional email I use [my real name at my isp] and my recreational one [aruvqan, it tends to be the name I use in different online games and forums] and a couple of these generated random ones earthlink hands out to register at websites to collect all the spam. I have a work mailing list email template for contacting my job in case i cant log in to my works remote server and use the email function on my desktop … and that way I have documentation I emailed, and I always leave VM with my appropriate people. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/117 "2009-02-26T01:51:07Z")
> [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](#): > > I bet the pay is crap anyway. 😃 And that’s basically my point, smily aside. Or included. It’s pointless. Online applications have maybe a tiny, half-percent chance of success. COmpanies who make you do it have basicaly said not to bother them. If they then further tell you not to call, it’s because they don’t care. I usually have questions about the position, workplace, duties, etc that the ad doesn’t answer. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/118 "2009-02-26T01:52:56Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I didn’t misconstrue shit. I think it’s bad enough he demands a nondemeaning way to get a job. Heaven forbid that an employer treat me as a person, instead of a worthless replaceable cog. Ayn Rand is full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/119 "2009-02-26T02:03:01Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > And that’s basically my point, smily aside. Or included. > > It’s pointless. Online applications have maybe a tiny, half-percent chance of success. COmpanies who make you do it have basicaly said not to bother them. If they then further tell you not to call, it’s because they don’t care. I usually have questions about the position, workplace, duties, etc that the ad doesn’t answer. 1/2 percent? That sounds about right. I get 200 applications for an entry level position, only going to hire 1 = 0.5% success rate. I do NOT have time to answer 200 phone calls for an entry level position. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/120 "2009-02-26T02:16:14Z")
Couple thoughts. First, the spread in Master’s degrees is interesting. My father has a Master’s (of course, he got it 40 years ago) in physics and picked it up by the age of 23. My brother is two years younger than me and now has a Master’s in English at 24, but I think he automatically got that after finishing a year of grad school. (He’s still in school, working on a PhD.) I also have a Master’s degree. Mine is in chemistry but I didn’t get it until I was 26. Though in my case, it’s more because I didn’t start undergrad until 19 (birthday was right on the cusp for kindergarten and I was basically redshirted as a result), meaning I didn’t start grad school until 23, and even then 3 years isn’t horribly long for a Master’s in a hard science requiring a thesis. Second, I got a job through online applications. Sure, I put in a ton of applications and didn’t hear back from a significant amount, though I’d say that I eventually got rejection emails for most after a month or two. I also had six or seven interviews at job fairs during ACS national meetings, none of which went any further. My online applications got me two site interviews, one of which got me the job I’m in now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257.md?page=7)