# Job hopping - value or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 17, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-hopping-value-or-not/757628 "2016-06-17T18:16:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-hopping-value-or-not/757628/41 "2016-06-20T18:09:07Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > That’s quite a bit more than my job–our company has only existed for ~20 years! Still, we have a fair number at 15+ years and 5 would be a bare minimum to be considered senior unless they came with very similar experience. At any rate, software is a big industry and you can’t extrapolate from one sub-field. I probably sounded more dismissive than I meant when I said “latest web language”; there are good reasons why parts of the software industry move quickly, and good reasons why other parts don’t. Near the end of the Bubble there was an article in Computerworld about a guy who switches jobs once a year or faster. He was kind of held up as an example of someone eager for great new opportunities, but he didn’t seem to be making more money or have more responsibility at each subsequent company. I’ve often wondered how he did after the Bubble burst - I sure wouldn’t have hired him, and I’ve rejected resumes with this kind of record. We actually hire people from school more than experienced people, since the pool of those in our field is pretty small, and new people have lots of experience with new technologies, and they also work hard. (Mostly PhDs.) Our energy has gone up a lot, and they mostly stay too. ---
**Author:** ![ReticulatingSplines](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@ReticulatingSplines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReticulatingSplines)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-hopping-value-or-not/757628/42 "2016-06-20T18:38:25Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > I’m sure that is the case, but you still have to question the person that over a 15 year period that jumped 7 times, if it was because of environment, etc. then he/she is horrible at determining what’s a good environment for them. Interviewing is a two way street. I don’t think that assessment is totally fair. It’s hard to land in a good environment because (a) in this market, most people don’t have the luxury of weighing five offers at the same time so you are often resigned to taking the best of what’s available, and (b) companies lie through their teeth. There is great advancement potential! We have a flat organizational structure! All lies, damned lies. Further, interviewers penalize candidates who ask reasonable but verboten questions, like if taking vacation is frowned upon, or how much raises typically are. And yes, I know you’ll tell me that candidates are supposed to indirectly suss out these things, but the whole thing is still stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-hopping-value-or-not/757628/43 "2016-06-20T18:57:48Z")
> [@ReticulatingSplines](#): > > All lies, damned lies. :dubious: Maybe self employment is in your best interest. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-hopping-value-or-not/757628/44 "2016-06-20T19:22:44Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > But we’re largely focused on systems software, and value solid C/C++ skills and deep systems knowledge over knowing the latest web language. I certainly wouldn’t turn away someone with 20 years experience in one company if it was the right kind of experience. I’ve averaged an 8.5% annual raise for the past 15 years in the same company, so it’s also hardly universal that sticking with the same company will barely beat inflation. As a contrast, I left a job in Nov 2014 for a 40+% raise and then left that job in Oct 2015 for a 35% raise. Totaling it all together I make nearly twice what I did 20 months ago. To match that increase at an 8.5% annual raise would take 8 years, or more than 4 times as long. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-hopping-value-or-not/757628/45 "2016-06-20T20:44:53Z")
> [@treis](#): > > As a contrast, I left a job in Nov 2014 for a 40+% raise and then left that job in Oct 2015 for a 35% raise. Totaling it all together I make nearly twice what I did 20 months ago. To match that increase at an 8.5% annual raise would take 8 years, or more than 4 times as long. That’s a long-term average, though. 35% raises aren’t sustainable for very long unless you’re on a fast track to upper management or started with a very low salary. I mean, technically my first year I got a 100% raise since I had been a low-paid web developer in college, but that doesn’t exactly count. As **Voyager** said, these job hoppers are around but they don’t seem to be making more money than anyone else, and at least in our fields end up damaging their own prospects. I’m sure that many of them tout 40% pay jumps here and there, but ignore the times they were unemployed for a while or took a pay cut or something else. Also, the stock benefits only really start accruing after a few years. Someone who jumped ship after a year would be missing out on a 20-30% bonus. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-hopping-value-or-not/757628/46 "2016-06-20T20:52:00Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > We actually hire people from school more than experienced people, since the pool of those in our field is pretty small, and new people have lots of experience with new technologies, and they also work hard. (Mostly PhDs.) That’s true for us as well, aside from the PhDs. We have pretty good retention, though somewhat bimodal–people that make it to 2 years will probably last 5+. Long experience is certainly a hit or miss affair–some people really bring a lot to the table, while others have clearly been coasting for years and have forgotten most of what they learned in college. This is usually pretty obvious in the interview, though. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-hopping-value-or-not/757628/47 "2016-06-21T12:03:15Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > What do you base this on - is the company contractually obligated to do it in some way, or is it just wishful thinking? That conditional is so filled with weasel clauses it’s completely meaningless - if someone isn’t getting rewarded and leaves, they obviously didn’t persevere and put in the time. If someone gets laid off or fired, regardless of the actual reason you can just say they didn’t prove their worth. It sounds something a person in an abusive romantic relationship would say about that relationship. I’ve heard that “abusive relationship” comparison before. Evidently you’ve never worked in a production-driven environment where daily quotas must be met. The more one produces, the handsomer the reward. I recently received a merit raise which I wasn’t expecting since my salary’s been capped for ages (being capped = seniority where you just get annual bonuses rather than a raise). I now make more than a lot of managers I know. Why wouldn’t it be in my best interest to remain where I am when I know full and well that if I jumped ship I wouldn’t make anywhere near what I’m making now? If I were younger and I wasn’t a homeowner, I’d consider taking the risk. I’m neither of those. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-hopping-value-or-not/757628/48 "2016-06-22T20:05:23Z")
Look, you can always find another job, regardless of your work history (well…some people can). I’ve changed jobs pretty frequently and it hasn’t stopped me from finding new jobs. But the problem is if you constantly change jobs, you never get any traction anywhere. Presumably you might want to get promoted some day. Even if you don’t, do you always want to be the “new guy” all the time? Pretty much every job is a shitty environment. If you keep jumping into boiling water, you’re always going to want to jump right back out. The secret is to stick around long enough to not notice the temperature rising. That way you can peacefully boil to death. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-hopping-value-or-not/757628.md?page=2)