# Job Offer: Smells Like SCAM. What do you think? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 26, 2004, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-smells-like-scam-what-do-you-think/247213 "2004-05-26T18:25:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-smells-like-scam-what-do-you-think/247213/1 "2004-05-26T18:25:04Z")
From the Monster job board comes this work at home type opportunity. It sounds like some BS and was wondering if this has been around or if anybody has seen this type of thing. If one opens a bank account with a zero balance or some minimum balance and no options on the account such as draft protection, (I think that is what my bank calls it when they will pay a check on credit even if the account does not have the funds to cover that check) how could one get hurt? Thanks, B&I +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ CHEMPACON GMBH (ADOLF-KOLPING-STR. 19, 77794, LAUTENBACH, Germany) INFORMATION ABOUT PART-TIME JOB AS AN INTERNATIONAL COMPANY REPRESENTATIVE Your job will consist mostly in dealing with our U.S. creditors. Some of our creditors prefer to cover our bills by local checks, we are unable to collect on the checks in timely manner, as the checks take up to 2 months to clear. This delay is caused by lengthily clearing process of U.S. Checks through German banks. Our business requires fast cashflow, and therefore we are seeking a representative that can process local U.S. checks for our company. It is easier for us to pay commission to our representative and have the money working the next day then wait for 2 months. You will have to receive the payment from our creditor, deposit it into your account and once cleared, forward the amount of payment, less your commission and other transfer expenses, to us. You will forward the money by Western Union, which is the fastest way to send money worldwide, to one of our branches in Europe. We have branches in almost all European countries. The money that is being handled by you is the payment for our products and services provided by our U.S. partners and distributors. We expect 3-4 payments a month to be forwarded through the representative, totaling no more then $5,000.00 each. All applicants must pass a background check, must have a bank checking account in good standing. Also, successful applicants must sign a Representative Service Contract with us. The representative, pursuant to the contract, will not be liable for any taxes in the United States. You will be transferring the money received from our creditors out of the country and therefore will not be liable for capital gains taxes. You will only be liable for your normal income tax on the commission received. Further in his employment with our company, the representative can take on other responsibilities and will be considered to be hired as a permanent representative of our company in the United States. Our beginning wage will depend on a number of transactions that the representative will assist us in. The fee paid per transaction is US $600, plus all if any fees encountered during the transaction. The fee is fixed at US $600, and does not depend on the size of the transaction. We expect a minimum of 3 transactions a month. At first would like to limit it to one transaction. When we see that everything is going fine, we will increase the number of transactions and start normal work. There is no regular wage, the wage depends on the number of transactions executed. The number of transactions depends on how fast and accurate you will perform. We expect high level of communication, fast feedback and accurate situation reporting. There are no investments required from you. If in the process of work you will encounter any additional expenses, they will be covered by us from the checks that you will receive from our creditors. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, FEEL FREE TO ASK THROUGH [christian.sterner@chempacon.com](mailto:christian.sterner@chempacon.com) If you do not have any other questions, and you would like to apply for this position please make the following steps: 1. Print, carefully read, fill in and sign the attached contract. 2. Fax it to our USA Fax number: 212-656-1774 or to our german fax number: 49-341-527-9000. You must include one type of picture ID. It could be your driver’s license, passport or any official identification document.If you don’t have any of these items on hands right now (if they are lost/stolen or waiting for replacement), then your latest phone or utility bill is also ok. You may blank out sensitive information such as your Driver’s License number or Social Security Number. 3. When you have done it, contact our accountant Eveline Holz at [eveline.holz@chempacon.com](mailto:eveline.holz@chempacon.com) ---
**Author:** ![LVgeogeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b19c9b/32.png) [@LVgeogeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVgeogeek)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-smells-like-scam-what-do-you-think/247213/2 "2004-05-26T18:30:09Z")
looks like a scam to get money from bad checks at your expense. ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-smells-like-scam-what-do-you-think/247213/3 "2004-05-26T18:39:34Z")
> **[Ripoff Report | Chempacon-Gmbh - Farmacie Umans Review - Nationwide](https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/chempacon-gmbh-farmacie-umans-bv/nationwide/chempacon-gmbh-farmacie-umans-bv-ripp-off-fraudulent-check-cashing-felony-internet-fra-90923)** > > Ripoff Report on: Chempacon-Gmbh - Farmacie Umans B.V. - Chempacongmbh farmacie umans bv rippoff fraudulent check cashing felony internet fraud over thirty natio... That’s what I thought, but how does it work? If I have clear funds and only send them those funds minus a fee, it seems that the original, cleared funds would have to be reversed or something. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-smells-like-scam-what-do-you-think/247213/4 "2004-05-26T18:44:26Z")
I don’t think the funds are clear. Plus, a lot of banks and cheque-cashing places have a rule that if you cash a cheque that bouces (even if you didn’t know it was bad), YOU are responsible for the funds, NOT the person who wrote the cheque. It’s easy to pass the buck with bad cheques. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-smells-like-scam-what-do-you-think/247213/5 "2004-05-26T18:54:49Z")
So, they want you to round up checks for them, many of which will be bad, then use the part-rubber checks for your payment and send them cash while they stay safely outside the reach of any local state or federal laws or regulations, right? They control the rules while you accept all the risk. I wouldn’t call something a scam when your getting screwed is this well spelled out. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-smells-like-scam-what-do-you-think/247213/6 "2004-05-26T18:59:39Z")
The premise absolutely reeks. People doing international business who insist on paying by check rather than by wire transfer? Companies overseas who accept this rather than insisting on a more efficient payment method? Strikes me as ludicrous. I also question whether it would really take two months for a check to clear. The fee schedule positively shouts “Too good to be true.” I’m sure what they count on is for a gullible person to send them the money, no doubt after his bank releases any hold on the deposited check, only to have it come to light weeks later that the deposited check is worthless and the poor sap is legally liable for the funds. It’s just totally unbelievable that the procedure is a solution to an actual problem. If I needed a representative for business overseas, it would be an established firm, not some individual who answered an ad, and I sure wouldn’t pay 600 bucks to expedite a payment. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-smells-like-scam-what-do-you-think/247213/7 "2004-05-26T19:01:38Z")
I’m not sure what that ripoff report is supposed to prove exactly. Not that I don’t think this is some sort of scam (why can’t the person who owes money go to Western Union himself?) but the site doesn’t explain why. The first thing that came to mind when I read the OP was “money laundering.” US banking regulations require reports of transactions of $10,000 or more so filtering some smaller transactions through a series of otherwise unrelated people could be a way around that. ---
**Author:** ![Only\_Mostly\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f19dbf/32.png) [@Only\_Mostly\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Only_Mostly_Dead)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-smells-like-scam-what-do-you-think/247213/8 "2004-05-26T19:29:19Z")
> [@Blown & Injected](#): > > This delay is caused by lengthily clearing > process of U.S. Checks through German banks. > > It is easier for us to pay commission to our > representative and have the money working the next day then wait for 2 months. > > We expect 3-4 payments a month to be forwarded through the representative, totaling no more then > $5,000.00 each. > We expect high level of communication, fast > feedback and accurate situation reporting. > > 1. Fax it to our USA Fax number: 212-656-1774 or to our german fax number: > 49-341-527-9000. > You must include one type of picture ID. It could be your driver’s license, passport or any official > identification document.If you don’t have any of these items on hands right now (if they are > lost/stolen or waiting for replacement), then your latest phone or utility bill is also ok. You > may blank out sensitive information such as your Driver’s License number or Social Security Number. If nothing else, I hate to trust bad grammar and spelling in an offficial advertisement like this, even if it is a foreign country. I like to imagine (perhaps naively) that the HR departments of companies would try to hire people able to professionally communicate. And as far as the “ID” thing, it sounds too anxious. They need a picture ID but will take a phone or utility bill? I haven’t seen too many phone bills with my picture on them. This definitely reeks. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-smells-like-scam-what-do-you-think/247213/9 "2004-05-26T20:46:42Z")
The premise that it takes as long to get money on an US check seems doubtful to me. I paid a check drawn on an US bank into my current account at the local _Sparkasse_ last week, and the amount got credited two days later (admittedly this seems to have been an advance by the bank, to be reversed if the check bounced, and the fee was 7.50 EUR for an 126 USD check, i.e. almost a tenth of the amount). Some US customers of our company do send checks, though, even when we ask for a wire transfer. If a company does a lot of business with US customers I imagine that they’d set up an account at an US bank (they give an US fax number so they presumably have someone in the US who could receive checks and pay them into the account.) Supporting information: - the [German telephone directory](http://www.telefonbuch.de) does not have a company Chempacon, in Lautenbach or elsewhere - The street name exists in the town, even the house number (there is a Catholic kindergarten at the address they name), but on the company is not on the [the list of local businesses](http://www.lautenbach-renchtal.de/wirtschaft/gewerbe.htm) on [the town’s site](http://www.lautenbach-renchtal.de). - they give an address in Baden-Württemberg, south-west Germany but the fax number they quote is in Leipzig, Saxony (Eastern Germany) - their Internet domain [was registered on May 3; the registrar locked the domain already on May 7](http://reports.internic.net/cgi/whois?whois_nic=chempacon.com&type=domain) - maybe law enforcement got wise to the scam quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-smells-like-scam-what-do-you-think/247213/10 "2004-05-26T20:50:04Z")
> [@Blown & Injected](#): > > If I have clear funds and only send them those funds minus a fee, it seems that the original, cleared funds would have to be reversed or something. Most likely it’s not just a _bad_ cheque, it’s a forgery. It’s a variant of the [“Return the difference on my purchase” scam](http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/scams/carsale.asp). > [@](#): > > The scam works because the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. (FDIC) requires banks to make money from cashier’s, certified, or teller’s checks available in one to five days. Consequently, funds from checks that might not be good are often released into payees’ accounts long before the checks have been honored by their issuing banks. High quality forgeries can be bounced back and forth between banks for weeks before anyone catches on to their being worthless, by which time victims have long since wired the “overpayments” to the con artists who have just taken them for a ride. ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-smells-like-scam-what-do-you-think/247213/11 "2004-05-26T22:15:13Z")
I don’t have a comment on the scam itself (and does it ever sound like a scam!) but on the source. Back when I was looking for a job I used all the various job boards including Monster and I often got “offers” like this, most often from Monster. I never gave these “offers” a second thought because I always made it clear I was seeking a programming position, making it obvious these guys were just harvesting lists. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-smells-like-scam-what-do-you-think/247213/12 "2004-05-26T22:15:45Z")
Wasn’t there a thread recently where someone’s nephew or stepson or someone fell for a similar scam? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-smells-like-scam-what-do-you-think/247213/13 "2004-05-26T22:19:13Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Most likely it’s not just a _bad_ cheque, it’s a forgery. > > It’s a variant of the [“Return the difference on my purchase” scam](http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/scams/carsale.asp). If that’s the case it might be fun to scam the scammers and after the initial amount is deposited, send them some email about how the bank mistakenly credited the deposit as 500,000 instead of 5,000., and you went and got it out out in cash which you are carrying around in a duffle bag, and will forward them their $ 5000 after you get to Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-smells-like-scam-what-do-you-think/247213/14 "2004-05-26T22:30:25Z")
**astro** , I like the way you think. Now… This e-mail, like almost every single “work at home” e-mail I have ever gotten, does not identify the company, (some do, but…) or give any description of what business the business is in. Sales? What’s the product. Some kind of service industry type business? What do they do for their customers. When I see this kind of thing, nothing about what the company actually does to earn its money, the needle on my bullshit detector starts regisgering scam. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2004, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-smells-like-scam-what-do-you-think/247213/15 "2004-05-26T22:47:04Z")
That looks like a total scam, and could potentially fuck up your credit. The lion’s share of work-from-home jobs on Monster and other such boards are scams. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-smells-like-scam-what-do-you-think/247213/16 "2004-05-27T01:19:15Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > a lot of banks and cheque-cashing places have a rule that if you cash a cheque that bouces (even if you didn’t know it was bad), YOU are responsible for the funds, NOT the person who wrote the cheque. I absolutely guarantee this is true, at least in some cases. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-smells-like-scam-what-do-you-think/247213/17 "2004-05-27T15:17:10Z")
A $600 commission for a transaction that won’t exceed $5,000? I know payday loan stores that don’t get that much. Scam scam scam. ---
**Author:** ![Tower\_Dweller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@Tower\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tower_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-smells-like-scam-what-do-you-think/247213/18 "2004-05-27T15:57:56Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > A $600 commission for a transaction that won’t exceed $5,000? I know payday loan stores that don’t get that much. > > Scam scam scam. I was thinking the same thing. Western Union (hardly the cheapest provider) could handle $5000, and for a lot less than a $600 fee. This is totally a check forgery scam. They’ll send you a check of some sort (cashier’s/certified/personal/whatever), you’ll “deposit” it. Your bank will release the funds. You’ll give the check over to the scammers, who will be able to deposit it and suck your account dry. A few weeks later when the check is finally found to be bad, the bank will reverse the charges in your account, and you’ll be negative $5000. In return, you get another worthless check for $600. They could even give you $600 in cash - they’ve still made $4400. They just need to net a few people and move on.