# Job Offer, Then Retraction? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 5, 2017, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608 "2017-12-05T05:46:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/41 "2017-12-06T04:13:34Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Employers are forbidden by law to comment on your performance. To my knowledge, that isn’t correct, it’s merely a policy most companies have adopted. Even if it were true, I’ve known plenty of bosses who can say, “I can verify the dates of kunilou’s employment” in tones of voice ranging from “we’re going to go out of business without him” all the way to “he slept with my wife, what else do you wanna know.” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/42 "2017-12-06T05:46:09Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > To my knowledge, that isn’t correct, it’s merely a policy most companies have adopted. This is correct, and I’ve had to follow it for some of my former employees. I’ve been able to phrase the “I can’t tell you” in such a way as to sound positive. Since I’ve retired I’ve been able to serve as a reference for a bunch of people who have worked for me with no restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/43 "2017-12-06T06:05:11Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > To my knowledge, that isn’t correct, it’s merely a policy most companies have adopted. > > Even if it were true, I’ve known plenty of bosses who can say, “I can verify the dates of kunilou’s employment” in tones of voice ranging from “we’re going to go out of business without him” all the way to “he slept with my wife, what else do you wanna know.” My memory is likely faulty on this. ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/44 "2017-12-06T13:22:11Z")
Wow. As someone who just went through the job interviewing process last week, and got a job offer on Friday … it makes me shudder to read about how much worse that whole experience could have gone. So did the director of HR actually specifically say that they wanted to extend an offer to you, in so many words? Just wondering because in my own very recent experience, I got some very shady, vague “we like you” statements from a few places I interviewed at. Working with head hunters in particular has been hard, though according to your OP, the assurance of an offer came directly from the director of HR at the company. But I was definitely told some stuff about how “the company liked you,” “you’re a front-runner for this job,” and shit like that that wound up being meaningless assurances. Anyways, if you receive any update on what happened, please update this thread, even if it’s fallen off the front page and people haven’t been responding for a while. I am very curious as to what happened. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/45 "2017-12-06T14:20:38Z")
No updates with regards to the company that offered/rescinded; emotionally, I’m putting that in my rearview mirror. Another company is ready to make an offer; I conducted pre-employment drug screening yesterday. My headhunter/recruiter is loading up my schedule for next week with other prospective employers for interviews and such. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/46 "2017-12-06T18:14:49Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/47 "2017-12-06T19:36:21Z")
Quasi-employment lawyer here (probably not in ExTank’s jurisdiction, all usual disclaimers apply). > [@ExTank](#): > > So, anyone with HR or hiring experience: can you offer any explanation as to what the hell happened? Given the statement, “long term fit,” am I wrong to suspect I may have been discriminated against based upon my age? I’m 50, FWIW. > [@UDS](#): > > But you were 50 on Friday too, presumably. So there’s really no reason to think that this was the deciding factor. This is 'murica. Prospective employer’s aren’t allowed to ask how old you are until they’ve offered you a job, thanks to the Age Discrimination in Employment Act. However, if the job requires a background screening, then the employer is going to find out how old you are when you complete the screening authorization form. > [@ExTank](#): > > -There’s noting in my past to pop “negative” on a background check; no criminal record, no record of mental instability, no health issues, no history of drug use, no history of violence (workplace or otherwise), etc. There may not be anything negative in your _actual_ background, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t anything that shows up on a background check. They’re like credit reports; they rely on third party sources - mostly public records - and those third parties are frequently wrong. Doubly so if you have a common name. **You’re entitled to a copy of the information that was provided to the employer (call them and ask for it, or for the contact information for LexisNexis or whoever they used). It would be a good idea to look at it to make sure there isn’t something untrue that could jeopardize future employment opportunities**. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If it was something objective like that, the HR lady could have said so, instead of this “long-term fit” line that meant “There’s something that a decision-maker just doesn’t like about you, but we can’t expose ourselves legally by telling you any more.” If legal exposure was the issue, they wouldn’t have said anything about long-term fit either. They’d say, “we don’t discuss that, sorry.” > [@Chefguy](#): > > Employers are forbidden by law to comment on your performance. They are restricted to only saying whether you are eligible for rehire or not. This is absolutely inaccurate. As others have pointed out, many employers refuse to comment on performance as a matter of policy, but they are not prohibited from doing so at all; it just exposes them to defamation, tortious interference and other civil liability. > [@](#): > > Never, ever give notice to your current employer until you have the new job offering in writing. At least that’s the advise I’ve heard. I’m not sure what you can do if your offer is still yanked… pound the paper at them? Seems silly to try to sue. In an at-will employment state, having a written job offer means very little. If the prior employer doesn’t take the employee back after giving notice, the prospective employer is at best liable for a few weeks of pay since they could have terminated the employee at any time anyway. If the prior employer takes the employee back, there are no damages. This is strictly a matter of contract law, so pain and suffering don’t come into it. Best of luck, **ExTank**. I’d hire you! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/48 "2017-12-06T23:49:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In an at-will employment state, having a written job offer means very little. If the prior employer doesn’t take the employee back after giving notice, the prospective employer is at best liable for a few weeks of pay since they could have terminated the employee at any time anyway. If the prior employer takes the employee back, there are no damages. This is strictly a matter of contract law, so pain and suffering don’t come into it. > > Best of luck, **ExTank**. I’d hire you! Even if it means nothing contractually, written offers don’t get sent out unless all decision makers have signed off on an offer. Verbal assurances mean nothing. A written offer may not guarantee the job, but it increases the chances. I’ve also read of salary offers made verbally and then changed in the written offer. So there is that also. ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/49 "2017-12-07T12:36:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In an at-will employment state, having a written job offer means very little. If the prior employer doesn’t take the employee back after giving notice, the prospective employer is at best liable for a few weeks of pay since they could have terminated the employee at any time anyway. If the prior employer takes the employee back, there are no damages. This is strictly a matter of contract law, so pain and suffering don’t come into it. So … are you advising against giving two weeks notice once you’ve signed and submitted a written offer? If so, at what point would you say it’s appropriate to give two weeks notice? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/50 "2017-12-07T12:57:59Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Employers are forbidden by law to comment on your performance. They are restricted to only saying whether you are eligible for rehire or not. We’re not forbidden by law from commenting on performance in all states. The federal government frequently sends us verification of employment requests asking for that kind of information. We don’t give it to them because it’s our policy to _only_ give out job title and years of employment but it wouldn’t be illegal to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/51 "2017-12-07T12:59:23Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Another company is ready to make an offer; I conducted pre-employment drug screening yesterday. They shouldn’t be sending you for drug screening until an offer has been made. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/52 "2017-12-07T13:01:07Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > My FB page is, IMO, pretty benign; YMMV. OMMV. I do have one **quasi-rant about my current employer from over a year ago**. So…possible, I suppose. I’m sure others have already responded, but this is probably what did it. The background checks often do include checking anything that’s available on social media, and you’d be surprised what they can find despite your settings, and you’d be even more surprised at what archived information they can find even when you think you’ve deleted it. **A warning to all: Never, ever rant about your employer on Facebook or any social media** - that’s the one thing that employers absolutely do not want to see - ever. Doesn’t matter that it was a year ago; when they look at it, it’s as though it happened early this afternoon and they don’t care. They don’t even want you talking about your employer for even benign reasons - privacy, propriety information, etc. You can rant about a lot of other things, even some things employers may personally disagree about (which isn’t advisable but most of the time won’t cost you). But you can’t rant about your employer - ever. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/53 "2017-12-07T13:06:10Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > The FB quasi-rant is gone, deleted, per other’s advice. You may not like this but I would even consider completely deleting your entire account. Not just idling it but completely deleting the account permanently. There may be ways for certain background investigation companies to find archived data. Social media companies say they delete your data, but I highly doubt it. They have backups. Your information, your pictures, your posts, your thoughts – it’s THEIR property. That’s the agreement you signed when you opened the account. Lay off FB for a while and then come back with a new account in a few months (link it to a different email address so that FB will not link it to your old account). You may also want to change your public posting profile with some variant of your real name so that your friends know who you are but that you’re less easy to find by background screeners. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/54 "2017-12-07T14:04:19Z")
My daughter is a nurse. She’s occasionally looking/applying for jobs. For years she’s maintained two Facebook pages. One is Firstname, Lastname. It is squeeky clean with only a few close friends (including me) who like/comment on the sporadic posts she makes. Her “real” page is Nickname, Middlename. She has many friends and doesn’t pull any punches. You would never find this page doing simple searches for her on Facebook. When applying for a job she volunteers her sterile Facebook page. She told me many of her friends do this. ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/55 "2017-12-07T14:44:22Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > When applying for a job she volunteers her sterile Facebook page. What do you mean, she “volunteers” her sterile Facebook page? Do her employers ask for a link to her Facebook page as part of her job application or something? ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/56 "2017-12-07T14:50:27Z")
Thank you all for the good info, and advice. I’m recalibrating/reassessing, along with continuing job searches and ongoing interviews until/as such I walk into my new employer’s facility and “clock in” on my first day of work. A question for **asahi:** if FB owns everything I’ve put up, would closing my FB account actually delete everything currently in my account? Pics and posts and status updates and all? Such that no investigative agency/data mining attempts could never find it? Seriously, that one quasi-rant is about the only thing I can see in my FB account that any prospective employer might reasonably object to. Everything else is vacation pics of sunsets and beaches, mountains and such; family and friends at various holiday gatherings; “likes” on kitten and puppy pics; all pretty benign stuff. My quasi rant was “G-rated;” no profanity, no threats, no pejoratives hurled at any one by name; it’s pretty much what you could hear anyone say (but much "cleaner,’ with no alcohol involved!) about their employer at any after work happy hour bull-session at any bar/grill in any city in…the World. And it was just the one; it’s not like I have a “Weekly Update” of my “grievances” at work. Paraphrasing from memory (since I deleted it): > [@](#): > > Been thinking about dusting off my resume and looking around a bit to see what’s available. Things at work are getting kind of strange, and overall, the “culture” has changed in just a short period of time such that it’s not really the job I started at a little over a year ago. Words to that effect, posted about 14 months ago. And I didn’t act on that until 2 months ago! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/57 "2017-12-07T15:49:37Z")
> [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](#): > > What do you mean, she “volunteers” her sterile Facebook page? Do her employers ask for a link to her Facebook page as part of her job application or something? Yes, it has come up. On her CV she lists it as well. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/58 "2017-12-07T17:01:23Z")
> [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](#): > > So … are you advising against giving two weeks notice once you’ve signed and submitted a written offer? If so, at what point would you say it’s appropriate to give two weeks notice? Give notice only if the company gives notice or severance pay to lay-offs. Or if they just have security walk you to the door as soon as you give notice. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/59 "2017-12-07T17:23:03Z")
> [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](#): > > So … are you advising against giving two weeks notice once you’ve signed and submitted a written offer? If so, at what point would you say it’s appropriate to give two weeks notice? I’m not really saying anything about the advisability of giving notice, only that people generally aren’t going to have a viable legal case against a prospective employer in cases like ExTank’s. That said, giving notice can be a bit of a hazard regardless since some employers will walk you out of the building the moment you give your notice. Then you’re out two weeks’ pay, unless you’re lucky enough to have accrued vacation/PTO, or the employer’s policy is to pay for the two weeks even though you aren’t working. My previous employer did that as a matter of course, and if I didn’t have a very good personal relationship with the partner I worked for (and if that partner didn’t block the policy in our department), I would not have given notice in order to protect myself. As it turned out, my new employer wanted me to start ASAP, but I gave _three_ weeks’ notice because I was very fond of my old boss. Unfortunately, custom and convention says that you give notice, and failing to do so will often make you ineligible for rehire. So I’d say that as long as you have assurances from all stakeholders (and you can generally rely on a written offer as such assurance, as long as it isn’t expressly contingent on something), you’d have to be very unlucky to have an offer withdrawn. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608/60 "2017-12-07T17:54:41Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Wow. What a shitty situation. > > I think I would write to them asking for (actually, sort-of-demanding) a more detailed rationale for their decision. I doubt they will respond with anything useful, but I think if nothing else, it could be good to reclaim the moral high ground. > [@ExTank](#): > > Not really interested in moral high ground; it’s an “at will” employment state, with some union protections. _If_ you’re a member of a union; I am, but that only applies to my current place of employment, not any prospective place(s) of employment, unless they’re also under contract with my current union. > > So the prospective employer who ganked me has no legal obligation to tell me much more than “pound sand,” and I kindly doubt that any “moral” argument will have any more effect on them than the legal one. You mentioned a third party was involved in your having been put in contact with this employer. If that’s their business model, perhaps such a follow-up would affect their willingness to act as a broker on future job openings (or at least influence the advice they give to job-seekers whom they send round). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-offer-then-retraction/803608.md?page=4)