# Jodie Whittaker and Chris Chibnall both leaving Doctor Who - thoughts? \[Russell T Davies is returning\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, disney-hulu\ **Created:** [July 29, 2021, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620 "2021-07-29T23:48:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/142 "2022-10-27T12:48:18Z")
Those of us without BBC America … there’s AMC+ or buying the ep on Prime for $2.99. I don’t have AMC+ either and for $2.99 I’ll not mess with any free trials. But haven’t got around to it yet. I just got around to the Spring special with the Sea Devils. Bleh. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/143 "2022-10-27T16:40:52Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > the next new episode isn’t until November of 2023. What the hell??? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/144 "2022-10-28T00:57:51Z")
BBC America is dead. It used to be one of my go to channels. Now every time I check there is either an old American movie or Star Trek:TNG. I just don’t understand the point of the network anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/145 "2022-10-28T01:03:45Z")
I agree; BBC America sucks nowadays but once was really good. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/146 "2022-10-28T01:04:29Z")
They do have _Planet Earth_ and new episodes of Graham Norton, which would be worth it if you watched them. But I don’t watch either of them; _Doctor Who_ was the chief reason I signed up to get it. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/147 "2022-10-28T02:42:58Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > Indeed, a record. But one with an asterisk. He has appeared as the same character several times in the franchise. Just not on the actual same show. He appeared in several licensed [audio dramas](https://www.bigfinish.com/contributors/v/William-Russell-6524) and in a newly filmed [frame story](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFN2hKI-yRE) on the DVD release of The Crusade. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/148 "2022-10-28T08:40:23Z")
Yeah; the Extended Whoniverse is vast, and sucks (almost) every actor back in at some point. Even Christopher Eccleston (for Big Finish). ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2022, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/149 "2022-10-28T09:47:09Z")
I was kind of disappointed at how bad the acting was from Ace and Tegan. I was expecting better. ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2022, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/150 "2022-10-30T12:09:42Z")
All very good points here which I can’t disagree with. I liked the energy that Jodie had. I do agree the writing wasn’t great. In the final episode, when she called herself a great engineer, I realize that they did start with that, with her sonic, but rarely did much with it. That was a wasted opportunity not to let her Doctor be more hands on with things. I never got into the Big Finish stories. I understand they are great but audiobooks have never been my thing. I did read the books that came out back in the 90s but stopped because, like the Star Wars books at that time, quality, for me, varied greatly from author to author. This author did something really cool. The next one was meh, the next one was bad, then another meh. I know a lot of fans used them to have new stories long before the revival but it never worked for me. I’m really annoyed with AMC+/BBC America. I didn’t realize that my sub to them via Amazon was streaming only. I got interrupted in watching the finale but figured no big deal, I can watch it later. Nope. Not until it aired again. WTF?? I really liked the Dalek episode and wanted more of those. I don’t remember now if it had bigger implications if the Dalek won in this instance but it was a show about the companions and the two people stuck. Not this world/galaxy spanning thing. Just trying to save two people, and themselves. The follow up Sea Devil episode then didn’t work for me, which was disappointing on so many levels. I had just liked the Dalek episode and thought this would be the same. I liked the Sea Devils return and what they could do with it. It just didn’t work for me, again bad writing. @Gyrate - Yes, we have all aged a lot in the past ten years! My wife and I were talking about companions and them having a minis series called Companions to show those who are doing it. As we counted up the compaions, we realized something. Now, we already knew that the Moffat years were more about the companions stories than the Doctors. Maybe Bill was the one exception. However, no companion that we can remember survived their time with Moffat’s Doctor. What? That really surprised me as I realized this because before when a companion died, it was a BIG. DEAL. The point, for me, was that the Doctor might not be able to save everyone on an adventure but he could save his friends. Now that’s not true. It was very disheartening to realize this. I also wanted Matha Jones there as well. She’s about the only other one to make it back. I’m not fond of mega corporations (seeing too much of Cyperpunk 2020/Shadowrun coming true) but for Doctor Who, I think it being on Disney is a good thing. I think the HBOMax subs I saw was 75 million across the world? D+ is in 158 million across the world. Much bigger potential audience, which I think it needs. I could be wrong but that’s my take on it. Thanks all for the conversation! ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2022, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/151 "2022-10-30T14:43:44Z")
Note that Disney+ isn’t replacing HBO Max as the home of previous seasons but instead replacing BBC America as the home of the new seasons. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2022, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/152 "2022-10-30T16:24:18Z")
For now. Given the current Warners HBOMax strategy of extreme cost cutting including back catalogue it may be something available to Disney whenever the current contract for it runs out. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2022, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/153 "2022-10-30T16:39:54Z")
That’s a _possibility_; however right now, HBO Max and not Disney+ is the home of the previous series. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/154 "2022-10-30T16:43:34Z")
Not disputing. Just speculating. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2022, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/155 "2022-10-30T16:48:25Z")
Sure. It’s a possibility. Just yesterday or the day before, CNN announced that they’re no longer going to produce documentaries such as the one with Stanley Tucci traveling through Italy for the food (which is actually a really good reason to travel Italy). I kind of wish someone else bought Warner Bros instead of Discovery. Like Apple or Google might have been better. (The long-term speculation I read someplace is that eventually Comcast is going to buy Warner Bros Discovery.) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2022, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/156 "2022-10-30T17:32:23Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > > [@aceplace57](#): > > > > He’s aged a lot in 10 years. > > Haven’t we all. It’s been a challenging decade all around. > > > [@eburacum45](#): > > > > And all the others, up to and including William Russell, who was already 39 when Doctor Who started in 1963. Some kind of record, probably. > > Stunned to realise who that was. > > I was thinking that it’s too bad they didn’t bring in Freema Agyeman for the scene as well, as the only other NewWho companion likely to be available and acceptable (what with Rose in another universe, Amy and Rory in another time, Donna mindwiped, Clara wiped from the _Doctor’s_ mind, Wilf’s actor dead and Mickey’s actor MeTooed into limbo at last report) but I get that the whole point of the scene was an OldWho reunion. The main thing I remember about Tegan was that AFAIK she’s one of the few companions (I guess Dan too, after this episode) to leave the Doctor because she’s basically traumatized from being dragged from one interstellar war to the next. I have to say, in that context, travelling with the Doctor doesn’t really sound all that “fun”. Yes, travelling through time and space sounds cool. But the idea of getting killed light years and possibly centuries or millennia from home in a battle with Daleks, Cybermen, Sontarans, or whoever or murdered by The Master or any number of the other beings who have been with the Doctor’s seems pretty unsettling. It’s like being able to go anywhere and anywhen so you pick the area around the Somme River, France in 1916! ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2022, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/157 "2022-10-31T15:16:20Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > The main thing I remember about Tegan was that AFAIK she’s one of the few companions (I guess Dan too, after this episode) to leave the Doctor because she’s basically traumatized from being dragged from one interstellar war to the next. This is one reason why I didn’t really buy Tegan’s attitude of “But you never checked up on me again; don’t you care about me anymore?” It’s always been a little odd to see former companions act like that–apart from Sarah Jane Smith, they all left the Doctor voluntarily–but for Tegan it seemed especially out of character. The circumstances of her departure, being disgusted by all the violence and bloodshed that she had witnessed, made it seem like she would never want to see the Doctor again. If he never appeared in her life after that, it was probably because he was respecting her wishes. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2022, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/158 "2022-10-31T23:01:03Z")
I think the conversation should have gone something like this: Kate Stewart: “We need your help. Your experience with The Doctor 40 years ago makes you an invaluable resource to UNIT.” Tegan Jovanka: “Suck my UNIT!” In another example of weak storytelling and missed opportunity -given that Dan left the Doctor at the beginning of the episode for reasons similar to Tegan’s, having them actually interact might have been interesting character development. ---
**Author:** ![veryfrank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/87869e/32.png) [@veryfrank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/veryfrank)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/159 "2022-11-02T20:30:28Z")
I was traveling, on a train somewhere in Germany while the recent big episode aired, and didn’t have any way to stream it. By the next day, the last scene’s reveal had been spoiled, but I could live with it. I got home two days ago and watched the ep. Thought the first half was a bit of a drag, but the second half was brilliant. Ace has been my favorite companion since the moment I first saw her (and Sophie Aldred is the only _Doctor Who_ actor to turn me into a babbling nitwit when I met her) and when she pulled on the old jacket and pulled out the bat, I was bouncing around with joy. That said, why was Ace pestering the gallery employee about the missing painting if she’s already working for UNIT and knows where it went? Seemed like an awkward setup for the audience’s benefit. For all of Chibnall’s inadequacies as a writer since inheriting the series, he actually came up with a decent rationalization to have five through eight make their appearances and I loved their scenes. Though I remember how, nine years ago, Paul McGann’s short episode was such a shattering surprise, and here was was just part of the ensemble…that felt odd and I’m not sure why. My problem with the episode was the same issue I had with the final episode of Flux, namely that Chibnall sets up several different plotlines, and then has the overwhelmed Doctor pinball from plot strand to plot strand, which usually entails nonstop babbling by Whittaker, which is when she’s at her least engaging. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/160 "2022-11-03T00:02:16Z")
> [@veryfrank](#): > > That said, why … This IMHO not an episode improved by stopping to ask why. It was just fast goofy stupid fun to be enjoyed as that. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620/161 "2022-11-04T00:05:21Z")
> [@veryfrank](#): > > I was traveling, on a train somewhere in Germany while the recent big episode aired, and didn’t have any way to stream it. By the next day, the last scene’s reveal had been spoiled, but I could live with it. I got home two days ago and watched the ep. Thought the first half was a bit of a drag, but the second half was brilliant. Ace has been my favorite companion since the moment I first saw her (and Sophie Aldred is the only _Doctor Who_ actor to turn me into a babbling nitwit when I met her) and when she pulled on the old jacket and pulled out the bat, I was bouncing around with joy. I suspect you are the episode’s target audience then. I appreciate the showrunners trying to integrate the Old Who with New who so it doesn’t seem like completely different shows before 1989 and after 2005 (plus that dumb movie in the 90s). But the addition of these random companions and elderly versions of the “immortal” time lords feels like fan service at its worse. Also it’s weird seeing previously young versions of the Doctor aged 40+ years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jodie-whittaker-and-chris-chibnall-both-leaving-doctor-who-thoughts-russell-t-davies-is-returning/947620.md?page=9)