# Joe Arapaio, Sentient Pustule **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 25, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376 "2010-12-25T21:14:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/181 "2011-01-04T05:25:37Z")
Did anyone in there manage to post some good reasons for despising Arpaio? I really want to dislike the guy for being a media whore, but I can’t find any good reasons lately. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/182 "2011-01-04T08:40:19Z")
Basically he’s a conservative and he takes a hard line approach to crime and the people who commit it. A lot of people on the left hate people who feel punitive toward criminals. This is why we have people in their late twenties and early thirties with rap sheets a mile long running the streets, raping, robbing and killing people when they should already have been in prison for most of the rest of their lives. After all, it’s better that innocent people be subjected to all that than to have three or four men confined to a cell. That’s just downright _mean_! Which brings to mind a question I’ve had for some time. If federal judges can impose expensive and unpopular burdens such as forced busing upon state governments and then leave it up to the states to come up with the financing and judge-approved methods of implementation, why can’t they mandate prisons be built in the same way? And why can’t there be open-air tent-city prisons similar to ol’ Joe’s jail? Surely cyclone fencing and canvas tents are less expensive than the huge monuments to concrete that we’ve been using for so long. At least, you know, until the judges mandate enough prisons to actually keep people behind bars. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/183 "2011-01-04T13:56:12Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Basically he’s a conservative and he takes a hard line approach to crime and the people who commit it. A lot of people on the left hate people who feel punitive toward criminals. This is why we have people in their late twenties and early thirties with rap sheets a mile long running the streets, raping, robbing and killing people when they should already have been in prison for most of the rest of their lives. After all, it’s better that innocent people be subjected to all that than to have three or four men confined to a cell. That’s just downright _mean_! > > Which brings to mind a question I’ve had for some time. If federal judges can impose expensive and unpopular burdens such as forced busing upon state governments and then leave it up to the states to come up with the financing and judge-approved methods of implementation, why can’t they mandate prisons be built in the same way? > > And why can’t there be open-air tent-city prisons similar to ol’ Joe’s jail? Surely cyclone fencing and canvas tents are less expensive than the huge monuments to concrete that we’ve been using for so long. At least, you know, until the judges mandate enough prisons to actually keep people behind bars. I think this goes to the fundamental questions about ideology, both liberal and conservative. Is the ideology alone enough to justify itself or does it have to serve a higher purpose? Arapaio’s methods may be conservative. But they also cost more and produce less results. Myself, I don’t care much about ideology. I don’t care if the method is liberal or conservative as long as it works best. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/184 "2011-01-04T14:48:15Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Which brings to mind a question I’ve had for some time. If federal judges can impose expensive and unpopular burdens such as forced busing upon state governments and then leave it up to the states to come up with the financing and judge-approved methods of implementation, why can’t they mandate prisons be built in the same way? Federal courts can require that a state takes actions to protect the federal rights of those it incarcerates. This happens regularly. If a state is overcrowding its prison system to the extent that such overcrowding violates federal rights, then the federal court system can require that the state either reduces its prison population or builds more prisons. Similarly, if school segregation violates state citizens federal rights, which it does, federal courts can require that said segregation is ended by the state, regardless of the unpopularity with people such as yourself, and regadless of the fact that you will have to pay extra taxes to fund it, and therefore will ahve less spare cash available to purchase life’s little necessities such as the Stars and Bars, white sheets and material for burning crosses. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/185 "2011-01-04T15:01:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Basically he’s a conservative and he takes a hard line approach to crime and the people who commit it. A lot of people on the left hate people who feel punitive toward criminals. This is why we have people in their late twenties and early thirties with rap sheets a mile long running the streets, raping, robbing and killing people when they should already have been in prison for most of the rest of their lives. After all, it’s better that innocent people be subjected to all that than to have three or four men confined to a cell. That’s just downright mean! Once again, the people in Arpaio’s custody have, by definition, not been convicted of a crime. (It’s a travesty, IMO, that the courts are so backed up that suspects can be locked up for months without a conviction, but that’s another thread.) We’re also not criticizing him because he isn’t putting his inmates in tastefully decorated suites with flatscreens and Sleep Number beds. It’s about edible food and adequate nutrition. Arpaio isn’t an asshole because he believes jail shouldn’t be a comfortable place. He’s an asshole because he takes such glee in cruelty. Even if you believe that inmates should be treated like animals (and I don’t), a principled man would regard it as a necessary evil and not something to be proud of. One gets the impression that the only things keeping him from making his inmates survive on one another’s feces and subjecting them to weekly televised ball-tazing are the namby-pamby liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/186 "2011-01-04T15:14:06Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Federal courts can require that a state takes actions to protect the federal rights of those it incarcerates. This happens regularly. If a state is overcrowding its prison system to the extent that such overcrowding violates federal rights, then the federal court system can require that the state either reduces its prison population or builds more prisons. > > Similarly, if school segregation violates state citizens federal rights, which it does, federal courts can require that said segregation is ended by the state, regardless of the unpopularity with people such as yourself, and regadless of the fact that you will have to pay extra taxes to fund it, and therefore will ahve less spare cash available to purchase life’s little necessities such as the Stars and Bars, white sheets and material for burning crosses. Oh, fuck off, you idiot. I’ve known plenty of black people who strongly disliked busing too. They don’t like having to get their kids up early to go stand in the snow on cold dark mornings waiting to get bused to schools clear across town either. I defy you to come up with one single post of mine on this board that in any reasonable sense racist. Knee-jerk dipshit! Sorry **Doctor J** , but I’ve got to call it a night before the sun gets any higher and I can’t get to sleep. I’ll try to respond tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/187 "2011-01-04T15:22:16Z")
How convenient. Yet again you make an idiotic post, get shown you are wrong, and mysteriously have to disappear, only to forget to answer it later. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/188 "2011-01-04T15:40:24Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Basically he’s a conservative and he takes a hard line approach to crime and the people who commit it. A lot of people on the left hate people who feel punitive toward criminals. This is why we have people in their late twenties and early thirties with rap sheets a mile long running the streets, raping, robbing and killing people when they should already have been in prison for most of the rest of their lives. After all, it’s better that innocent people be subjected to all that than to have three or four men confined to a cell. That’s just downright _mean_! I’m not sure who these ‘liberals’ are that you so blithly reference. My politics are left of lunatic fringe ( as are many of my friends) and none of us want rapists or murderers wandering the streets. I visited a man on death row in Texas ( no, I didn’t know him. It was something that I did as a Quaker ) and while I didn’t want him executed, I also recognized that he should never be released. He was dangerous. More to the point though, many of the ‘criminals’ currently incarcerated are behind bars for drug convictions or other non-violent crimes. Once released, it is extremely difficult for them to obtain gainful employment at a living wage. I’m not saying that this justifies committing more crimes, but heh, you lack basic skills, you have no money and no one wants to hire you. What are you going to do to keep a roof over your head and food in your belly? The gentlemen that currently works for us looked for a steady job for over a year. He managed to scrap by doing odd jobs but he’ll be the first to admit that he was desperate. It doesn’t help that, at least here in Texas, prisoners on parole are expected to pay the state monthly as part of the terms of their parole. > [@](#): > > Which brings to mind a question I’ve had for some time. If federal judges can impose expensive and unpopular burdens such as forced busing upon state governments and then leave it up to the states to come up with the financing and judge-approved methods of implementation, why can’t they mandate prisons be built in the same way? > > And why can’t there be open-air tent-city prisons similar to ol’ Joe’s jail? Surely cyclone fencing and canvas tents are less expensive than the huge monuments to concrete that we’ve been using for so long. At least, you know, until the judges mandate enough prisons to actually keep people behind bars. Because prisons are being running by private corporations for **profit**. It’s a booming enterprise, run, of course, at taxpayer expense. Which is, of course, why we have nominal interest in actually helping convicted felons find jobs and stay out of prison Take the T. Don Hutto correction center in Williamson County. It holds immigrant families. Some of the families held at the facility are awaiting adjudication of their claims for relief or asylum. Most are from Mexico or Central America but there are Africans, Asians, Europeans, and Middle Easterners as well. Like those in Arpaio’s custody, no one there has been convicted of anything yet. Hutto is run by Corrections Corporation of America. Until the ACLU and other groups sued the facility, the budget per prisoner per day for food was a little under $2.50. This included children and pregnant women. Tell me how you can feed a nutritious breakfast lunch and dinner for under $2.50 per day. (The lawsuit was settled in 2009 and families are no longer housed there). ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/189 "2011-01-04T15:50:16Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > He’s an asshole because he takes such glee in cruelty. Like **Starving Artist** said: basically he’s a conservative. Zing! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/190 "2011-01-04T17:13:30Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Oh, fuck off, you idiot. That’s a paddlin’. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/191 "2011-01-04T17:24:29Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > Once again, the people in Arpaio’s custody have, by definition, not been convicted of a crime. (It’s a travesty, IMO, that the courts are so backed up that suspects can be locked up for months without a conviction, but that’s another thread.) No, this is not true. As sheriff, Arapaio runs the jail, which houses both pre-trial detainees and those convicted of misdemeanor offenses (where the penalty is less than a year confinement). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/192 "2011-01-04T17:49:26Z")
May we be permitted to some outrage on behalf of those not convicted of any crimes? Just to clarify your position. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/193 "2011-01-04T18:12:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Posted: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 6:30 pm | Updated: 5:06 pm, Thu Oct 14, 2010. > > Howard Fischer, Capitol Media Services > > Citing evidence of "inedible’’ food, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals rejected efforts by Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio to escape an order that he serve meals that meet federal dietary guidelines. > > In an unsigned ruling Wednesday, the judges said there was evidence of ongoing violations of the constitutional rights of inmates who are being housed awaiting trial. > > More to the point, they said that U.S. District Court Judge Neil Wake gave Arpaio adequate opportunity to present a plan to remedy the problems. When he did not, the judge said, Wake was free to impose his own requirements. > > Attorney Larry Hammond, who represented the prisoners, said the order technically applies only to pretrial detainees – those who have not been convicted of anything but either cannot post bail or are being held without bond. But statistics from the sheriff’s department show these people make up about three-fourths of the approximately 8,000 inmates in Arpaio’s jails. …[RIGHT][CITE](http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/local/cop_shop/article_6761d1f8-d731-11df-bc42-001cc4c002e0.html)[/RIGHT] If you can’t be fucking bothered to fucking read the fucking cites in the fucking thread you have no fucking right to a fucking opinion. :mad: > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Basically he’s a conservative and he takes a hard line approach to crime and the people who commit it. … Especially YOU! CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/194 "2011-01-04T18:13:17Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > If you can’t be fucking bothered to fucking read the fucking cites in the fucking thread you have no fucking right to a fucking opinion. :mad:Especially YOU! > > CMC fnord! You know what? Back in the good old days people respected the opinions of their elders. Even if they were speaking complete bollocks. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/195 "2011-01-04T18:16:57Z")
I sure didn’t. But I have grown wiser. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/196 "2011-01-04T18:20:37Z")
Reading back, it almost looks like I was serious there. Nah… ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/197 "2011-01-04T18:25:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Once released, it is extremely difficult for them to obtain gainful employment at a living wage. > I’m not saying that this justifies committing more crimes, but heh, you lack basic skills, you have no money and no one wants to hire you. > What are you going to do to keep a roof over your head and food in your belly? > The gentlemen that currently works for us looked for a steady job for over a year. > He managed to scrap by doing odd jobs but he’ll be the first to admit that he was desperate. I have always contended that part of a sentence should be to get some marketable skills, if the person doesn’t have any. Yes, this means that sentences will be longer, in some cases, and indeterminate. But if someone CAN’T make a living other than by stealing or dealing or peddling ass, what better use of his/her time? ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/198 "2011-01-04T18:31:51Z")
I admire your frustration here, **crowmanyclouds** , but facts and conservatives–especially of the Internet Tough Guy variety–are like oil and water. **Starving Artist** and **Uzi** (and **Bricker** here too, to a lesser extent) are displaying not only a lack of a grasp of the material facts involved\*, but they’re also displaying the sort of juvenile lack of basic human decency and empathy, that characterizes right-wing thinking on issues of crime and punishment. So it’s not worth getting _that_ angry about. \*Those facts being: 1. An insufficiently nutritious diet is NOT synonymous with “torture” or “starvation” (in the way that **Uzi** tries to disingenuously redefine it), yet it IS a clear violation of civil and basic human rights; and 2. The _majority_ of those housed in the Maricopa Jail system have _not yet been found guilty of any crime_. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/199 "2011-01-04T18:38:37Z")
And you haven’t proven that the diet is ‘insufficiently nutritious’. You just have a court saying that there was inedible food. Not the same thing at all. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/200 "2011-01-04T18:43:50Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > And you haven’t proven that the diet is ‘insufficiently nutritious’. You just have a court saying that there was inedible food. Not the same thing at all. When you wrote that, did it hurt your brain, soul, or both? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376.md?page=11)