# Joe Arapaio, Sentient Pustule **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 25, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376 "2010-12-25T21:14:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/121 "2010-12-27T18:59:42Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > I’ve already answered your first paragraph earlier. > > People are in jail. How do you put people in jail without it being ‘punishment’? All punishment is not equal. a fine and someone breaking your leg are both punishment. Surely then speeders deserve to have their legs crippled, yea? If you’re not a complete savage piece of shit you’ll recognize punishments are not equal. You seem to be stipulating being accused is a crime worthy of being subjected the life a refugee, complete with malnourishment. Why is that? Further as **Frank** said even the guilty are entitled to humane treatment. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/122 "2010-12-27T19:08:28Z")
> [@Claude\_Remains](#): > > If the Mc Donalalds Corp. one day offered to feed every inmate 3 squares a day there would still be people saying that _THAT_ is inhumane. When was the last time you thought about poor Charles Manson and sent him a warm letter and some home baked cookies? Depends what they were feeding them. If it’s healthy food than that’s okay, but if it’s mcdoubles and candy, then yea it’s abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/123 "2010-12-27T19:35:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Not to side with **Uzi** , whose lack of compassion I am finding difficult to stomach, but I think he’s asking for evidence that the conditions ruled on in 2008 are still in place here at the end of 2010. No, I’m asking are these prisoners are actually being deprived? Are they physically suffering? What does compassion have to do with it? If they were being beaten then I’d want it stopped. But, all that is happening is that they don’t get a thrilling choice of food and have to listen to classical music along with the occasional Frank Sinatra. Oh, horror! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/124 "2010-12-27T20:00:57Z")
> [@11811](#): > > from here: [http://forums.officer.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-82231.html](http://forums.officer.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-82231.html) > > Bologna sandwich: Rather than serve inmates three square meals a day, Arpaio decided to save money and return to the days when the term “prison food” meant something. Tents in the parking lot? Well THAT sounds like a great idea! > [@Claude\_Remains](#): > > Anyway, back to jail… I’ve been there many times Why am I not surprised? [sub]Actually, I sent Manson some cookies this year for Xmas, thankyouverymuch. He said they were delicious[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/125 "2010-12-27T20:11:32Z")
Hmm… They call it [The County JAIL](http://services.co.dakota.mn.us/InmateSearch/default.aspx) here folks, and while there are quite a few who are awaiting trial, a quick perusal of the inmates shows at least a few of the 202 listed as of today are there serving out sentences. Then there’s that rat bastard, **Do, Not Use**. Fucking Monster. 😛 Oh, this is a bit entertaining. Looking at the Hennepin County Jail; Guy named Stiffarm. Domestic Assault. How did she not see that coming? A guy named Crook. Of course. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/126 "2010-12-27T21:41:49Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > No, I’m asking are these prisoners are actually being deprived? Are they physically suffering? > > What does compassion have to do with it? If they were being beaten then I’d want it stopped. But, all that is happening is that they don’t get a thrilling choice of food and have to listen to classical music along with the occasional Frank Sinatra. Oh, horror! 14 cents a meal-moldy bologna and the cheapest bread possible. I suggest you get a fucking sense of perspective, because this has fuck-all to do with “a thrilling choice of food”. Do you honestly believe that these prisoners, some of whom haven’t even been convicted yet, are getting the minimum nutritional requirement? Do you honestly believe that this is a healthy diet? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/127 "2010-12-27T21:44:34Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > No, I’m asking are these prisoners are actually being deprived? Are they physically suffering? Yes. They’re being fed spoiled food and being deprived of adequate medical care. The problem isn’t that the food is boring or whatever, or that they have to listen to classical music. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/128 "2010-12-27T23:02:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 14 cents a meal-moldy bologna and the cheapest bread possible. I suggest you get a fucking sense of perspective, because this has fuck-all to do with “a thrilling choice of food”. Do you honestly believe that these prisoners, some of whom haven’t even been convicted yet, are getting the minimum nutritional requirement? Do you honestly believe that this is a healthy diet? I agree that fourteen cents per meal sounds low, but I’d like a bit more proof than simply that number before I’d agree that the food is moldy, for instance. It’s possible that inmate labor reduces the cost of the food, for instance. I don’t say you’re wrong, but neither do I accept your definitive, Diogenes-like declaration of correctness. What is the calorie count of the meal being served, and does it in fact contained spoiled or moldy items? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/129 "2010-12-27T23:16:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I agree that fourteen cents per meal sounds low, but I’d like a bit more proof than simply that number before I’d agree that the food is moldy, for instance. > **[Court quashes Arpaio's appeal over jail food order](https://www.eastvalleytribune.com/local/cop_shop/article_6761d1f8-d731-11df-bc42-001cc4c002e0.html)** > > Citing evidence of "inedible'' food, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals rejected efforts by Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio to escape an order that he serve meals that meet federal > [@](#): > > Citing evidence of "inedible’’ food, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals rejected efforts by Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio to escape an order that he serve meals that meet federal dietary guidelines.. . . > > But Hammond said it is clear from the appeal that the sheriff’s department wanted out from under the requirements. > > One of those is that those being housed in the jails be provided with food that satisfies the dietary guidelines of the U.S. Department of Agriculture. > > Wake said those guidelines recommend 2,400 calories a day for males age 19 to 30 with a sedentary lifestyle and from 2,600 to 2,800 calories for those with a moderately active lifestyle. And Wake said if pretrial detainees are getting the exercise time to which they are entitled, they would fit into the second category. > > The county’s dietician testified he designs menus to provide prisoners with 2,400 to 2,500 calories a day. > > But Wake did not give that a lot of credibility, the appellate court said, because the menus provided were "exceedingly vague’’ and "it was clear the dietician did not actually know what prisoners were fed.‘’ > > That, however, wasn’t the only problem. > > "Substantial testimony from pretrial detainees established that they are often given food that is overripe, moldy, and generally inedible,‘’ the appellate court said. The judge said Arpaio produced no evidence that inmates are provided with food that meets or exceeds the guidelines. Here’s the actual 9th circuit ruling: [http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1540979.html](http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1540979.html) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/130 "2010-12-27T23:18:59Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > [Court quashes Arpaio's appeal over jail food order](http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/local/cop_shop/article_6761d1f8-d731-11df-bc42-001cc4c002e0.html) And that’s what you call a cite! Thanks – right on point. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/131 "2010-12-27T23:47:41Z")
Not disputing the prisoner’s testimony, but I would rather have the results of a state health department inspection. Surely the county’s facility would fall under the same regulations and have to be inspected just like other facilities / restaurants that serve food. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/132 "2010-12-27T23:51:55Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Here’s the actual 9th circuit ruling: Well, a ruling of the court put most of those people into jail, some of them innocent, and now a ruling of the court says the food is ‘inedible’. Why do I think that the people on the court probably have names like Czarcasm and elucidator? They claim that the food is inedible, yet where is the evidence that people are suffering because of it? I can go down to the fridge in my house and find an old piece of lettuce that we can all declare inedible, yet if no one eats it it doesn’t really matter. Are people starving? Are people malnourished? Prove that and I’ll gladly concede the point. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/133 "2010-12-28T00:07:31Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Are people starving? Are people malnourished? Prove that and I’ll gladly concede the point. What would you accept as irrefutable proof that prisoners are malnourished? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/134 "2010-12-28T00:22:08Z")
I guess that I would consider the lawsuits to be proof there is a problem. I can’t for the life of me name any other county jails that are being sued and complained about like this. Well, other than Terry Nichols and a couple of other suit happy losers. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/135 "2010-12-28T00:53:05Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What would you accept as irrefutable proof that prisoners are malnourished? As flickster suggested. Are there not government bodies that have oversight? It seems a pretty lax way to run a government without any form of actual governance. If he is negligent then it should have been recognized internally before it reached the courts and dealt with. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/136 "2010-12-28T00:57:05Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Are there not government bodies that have oversight? Well, there’s the courts. Courts are pretty generally acknowledged to have oversight over jail and prison conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/137 "2010-12-28T01:00:42Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I guess that I would consider the lawsuits to be proof there is a problem. I can’t for the life of me name any other county jails that are being sued and complained about like this. Well, other than Terry Nichols and a couple of other suit happy losers. [Dallas county Jail](http://www.angelfire.com/crazy4/texas/classaction.html) [El Paso](http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4191/is_20060206/ai_n16065811/) [Bunch of different places](https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/%28S%280s3s4hihytjkxerikz35bj55%29%29/displayArticle.aspx?articleid=22246&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1) Prisoners sue because they can. Maybe they are correct, maybe they are not. Where is the evidence of malnutrition? I see lots of bitching about hot meals in the latter link, though. Oh No! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/138 "2010-12-28T01:05:51Z")
Again, speaking from personal experience in this area, there’s a lot more to running a prison than being “tough”. For one thing, consider that the county is responsible for the medical care of any people it’s holding in custody. So which is a better use of public money - feeding prisoners cheap but nutritious food or treating the health problems that arise from inadequate diets? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/139 "2010-12-28T01:08:20Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > As flickster suggested. Are there not government bodies that have oversight? Yeah, but they are all named **Czarcasm** and **elucidator**. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376/140 "2010-12-28T01:18:43Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Prisoners sue because they can. Maybe they are correct, maybe they are not. Yes, and in Maricopa County, the court decided that the prisoners are correct. I’ll note that there is an actual prison guard posting in this thread, and he is–albeit with very carefully worded language–not defending Arapaio. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-arapaio-sentient-pustule/565376.md?page=8)