Joe Biden is wrong. Betsy DeVos is right.

The rest of your post was good, and **information you should have included in your original post. ** As I pointed out to SlackerInc, his post did not actually include any information to support his claim. Yours didn’t either, so it was a bad post. I don’t entirely agree with your post, but at least you finally made an argument, rather than assume your audience agreed with you.

Unfortunately, this upends all of that. You’re using hostility to substitute for argument. You did not at any point in your entire rant argue why redefining an existing term to ignore cases that would be called “sexual harassment” in real life is a good thing. Just because you attack the post with your insulting language does not make it any less argumentum ad hominem.

I argue that it reduces the rights of the accusers, that it is designed to allow de facto cases of sexual harassment to be swept under the rug. I challenged you to prove that wrong. The redefinition includes weasel words that seem to allow them to decide that a particular case doesn’t count.

And, what do you know? The ACLU agrees with me. They’re suing to stop this. They argue that the redefinition of “sexual harassment” violates the rights of the accusers. You seem to have neglected their rights in your analysis.

If you’d actually read the other posts I made in this thread, you’d know that I actually generally support the other changes, but think they added those to make the reduction of rights of the accusers seem more palatable. They added things that anyone with any common sense would realize were necessary to protect the accused so they could point to those whenever anyone pointed out how bad the one horrible change was.


Now to briefly cover your other argument (without post parsing): preponderance of the evidence is the standard for arrests, and so does not mean that any accusation will be assumed true, as the accusation itself would be balanced against the statement of the accused. If schools were using it that way, then it was what I said–schools being incompetent, covering their asses rather than enforcing the rules. And, unfortunately, I see nothing in the new rules that would stop them from doing that.

The rest of your post just seem to be confirming my interpretation that the schools are being incompetent. They make for a great emotional punch, but do not actually disagree with what I argued. My argument was that you had not established that the cause of the situation was because of the Obama era law.

The only part I capitulate is that the argument that this increases due process has been so advertised about this new law. Unfortunately, it seems that it is designed to do so only for the accused and not the accusers.


Finally, I note that I am engaging with you in the way I wish to be engaged with. I could respond with hostility due to your focus on the accused and leaving out the accusers, something that rape activists have been arguing for decades now is part of the problem, and is a key part of #MeToo. That people still seem to care more about defending the accused makes me angry to this day. But I have responded without hostility.

I ask that you respond to me in the same fashion. And, if you have a personal problem with me, I ask that you bring that up in a more appropriate forum.

Because I am aware that people often gloss over my longer posts, I with to reiterate the reason I returned to this thread in the first place:

The ACLU has now sued Betty DeVoss for her new rules, alleging they violate the due process rights of victims of sexual harassment and assault. (The link includes the entire complaint and no stupid autoplaying video.)

So to those saying they’d wait on the ACLU due to their expertise on due process and rights violations, they have now spoken. I am unsurprised by their position, and hope they prevail at least long enough for a new president to be elected and the issue made moot.

I have full faith that any new president would keep the good parts of the rule change.

From the American Civil Liberties Union (already linked to at least once in this thread):

So, the ACLU is taking the position that it is a bad thing to strengthen protections for people who are accused of crimes. (And these college and university processes, while not precisely criminal trials, are closer to criminal trials than they are to anything else.)

People shouldn’t support civil liberties because they support the ACLU. People should support the ACLU because they support civil liberties. If the ACLU has ceased to support civil liberties, then the hell with the ACLU.

From the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (a civil liberties organization with a more narrow mandate than the ACLU, but which actually seems to still be concerned about civil liberties):

[quote]
[ul][li] The 2011 “Dear Colleague” letter eviscerated due process rights of students and faculty accused of sexual misconduct on campus[/li][li] The letter mandated a low standard of proof for findings of guilt, discouraged cross-examination, and urged colleges to allow for double jeopardy[/li][li] The letter was extensively criticized by FIRE, other civil liberties groups, and law professors[/ul][/li][/quote]

When a policy “mandated a low standard of proof for findings of guilt, discouraged cross-examination, and urged colleges to allow for double jeopardy” this can’t just be chalked up to “incompetence”. Those constitute a fundamental lack of due process and basic fairness, and any civil liberties organization worthy of the name would oppose such a policy.

I mean, I supported Obama, too, and I don’t trust Betsy DeVos or anybody else in the Trump Administration (especially Trump himself, of course), but the Obama Administration’s policy on this particular issue was just not defensible.