# Joe Biden runs for president. How screwed is Hillary? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 3, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899 "2015-08-03T17:48:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/41 "2015-08-04T03:42:18Z")
[quote=“DerekMichaels00, post:40, topic:726899”] One cannot have a respectable future without respect for heritage. [quote] Sez who, aside from you? > [@](#): > > And the fact is I’m not the only person who would be bitter about Biden crashing Hillary’s nomination. You’re the only one I’ve heard so far. I’m sure other people will resent Biden entering the race, but not for your imagined reasons. > [@](#): > > Plus, he does kind of have no money or organization. He’s been there before, he won’t run unless he has the money and organization. He can get those things. > [@](#): > > He also has no swing states. The states regional to his, like MD, DE, PA are among those states that I mentioned which are straight Dem since 1992 (the Clintons). Hillary can win AZ (Bill not only did in 1996, but exit polls indicated he [still woulda won](http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/AZPxp.html) it sans 3rd parties; however the whole Perot-spoiler myth has been debunked elsewhere too but Obama’s surrogates used it in 2008 anyway and never apologized for demeaning the Clintons’ resurrection of the party), Missouri (which Bill won twice by wide margins), WV (also won by Bill twice by wide margins), and possible Arkansas, if not make it competitive enough to draw GOP money there, same with Kentucky. He’s also another white male, Hillary would be the first woman president. I don’t vote on that, but many primary voters might. Also, she has been known to be friendlier to the Jewish State of Israel and tougher against the Jihadist Theocracy of Iran than Obama and his ilk. Yet she’s being nice and loyal and supporting the unpopular deal for which Obama and Biden owe her. A deal which is likely to get voted down, and hurts the Dem party given how Israel still commands large pluralities or majorities of support depending on the question. I don’t know what you’re talking about. Biden isn’t even running yet, this is a question about the primaries, and you’re spouting off general election considerations. And if you think Hillary is such a great candidate why do you care about Joe Biden running against her? Is she really quite weak and afraid of the guy who hasn’t even thrown his hat in the ring yet? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/42 "2015-08-04T04:33:09Z")
_Feh!_ The radicals hack out the trail, the progressives clear the campsite and build the cabins, liberals show up when the hot showers are installed. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/43 "2015-08-04T09:15:41Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Zero screwed. > > Pollsters have been asking Democratic voters for a long time now if they’d prefer Biden to Clinton. Right now Clinton has a lead in the RCP average of about 58 to 12 and that has been pretty steady. Which matters not at all when Biden isn’t in the race. Polls always have a bias against candidates who are considered less likely to run. If Obama did endorse Biden, the race would be pretty much over. Clinton’s support would almost completely evaporate. If Obama holds off, then it’s a real race, but I’d give Biden the advantage. The wild card that is Sanders. Some analysts think that Biden and Clinton would be competing for the same voters, while Sanders’ support would remain unchanged. I don’t believe that, I think a lot of Sanders voters just want anyone but Clinton. But if Biden and Clinton did compete for the same pool while Sanders got his 25% or so, then Sanders could win a three-way or prevent either Biden or Clinton from winning a majority of delegates. But yeah, if Biden gets in my money’s on Biden. Clinton has never won a competitive race in her life, she’s not about to start now. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/44 "2015-08-04T09:20:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How does Biden differentiate himself from Hillary? How much money is he able to raise relative to her? Um, honesty? Being able to relate to regular folks? There’s also the kind of press he’s likely to get. Where Clinton has a mutual hate-on with the media, Biden has a great relationship with journalists and he’s going to get a lot of sympathy coverage. Plus he gets to be portrayed as the plucky underdog despite being a sitting VP. And of course the media will not hesitate to portray the race as “honest Joe” vs. the “dishonest Hillary”. As far as policy goes, there’s probably no daylight between them. But that makes things even worse for Clinton. If Biden and Clinton are the same on the issues, what is the rationale for supporting Clinton? There is none, and that will be made crystal clear the day after Biden enters the race. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/45 "2015-08-04T11:02:21Z")
Perhaps they’re in this together? So when the dems start in on each other, they can lob soft balls, at each other, and each look clever and more dignified than the field by turn! I think it hurts her if there’s no ‘field’ for her to run against, so why not build one? Then, when the moment is right…she names him as her pick for VP! ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/46 "2015-08-04T11:23:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If Obama did endorse Biden, the race would be pretty much over. Clinton’s support would almost completely evaporate. I don’t see that at all. Clinton has support that is completely independent of Obama. Biden wouldn’t inspire support no matter what Obama said. Joe’s simply not a great candidate as his past runs have shown. Biden would garner some votes and would be a respectable candidate whether Obama endorsed him or not. But an Obama endorsement wouldn’t make him the front runner and it certainly wouldn’t eliminate Hilary’s support. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/47 "2015-08-04T11:58:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > … he’s going to get a lot of sympathy coverage. … Please note that other than a recent sympathy related bump Biden has typically run 4 to 7 points [underwater](http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/joe-biden-favorable-rating) on favorability. More than Clinton has dropped to. While I think he has actually been an involved and effective VP few will understand that as an accomplishment. Sympathy bumps only last so long. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/48 "2015-08-04T12:13:43Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I don’t see that at all. Clinton has support that is completely independent of Obama. Biden wouldn’t inspire support no matter what Obama said. Joe’s simply not a great candidate as his past runs have shown. > > Biden would garner some votes and would be a respectable candidate whether Obama endorsed him or not. But an Obama endorsement wouldn’t make him the front runner and it certainly wouldn’t eliminate Hilary’s support. Joe has never run as a two term vice president. He didn’t have a national presence in 2008 in his last run and I think he would do better now. I see a Biden entry as pulling the rug from under Sanders. There is part of the party that sees Hillary as a plate of broccoli- we know we have to eat it but there’s this dish of ice cream that we’d rather have. Sanders has tapped into the unHillary vote, but now that there is an alternative, his support will dry up. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/49 "2015-08-04T12:40:01Z")
Here is the order in which I would support various candidates for the Presidency: 1)Sanders 2)Biden 3)Clinton … … … 999 through 1000000) any Republican candidate ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/50 "2015-08-04T14:16:49Z")
Biden’s weakness has always been based on being a) lesser known, and b) unable to raise big money. You know who else had that problem? Bush 41. You know who else? Al Gore. Being a VP is a great launching point. Biden is not a seriously flawed candidate, except in the sense that he’s a two-time loser in primaries. So what? Clinton lost too, and didn’t cover herself in glory in the process. At least Joe bowed out gracefully. Clinton made every effort to hurt Obama on his way to the nomination, even after the race was lost to her. IT’ll be hard to respect Democrats if they get a choice between Biden and Clinton and pick Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/51 "2015-08-04T15:11:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > IT’ll be hard to respect Democrats if they get a choice between Biden and Clinton and pick Clinton. Is there a permutation of events that would cause you to respect Democrats? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/52 "2015-08-04T15:14:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Biden’s weakness has always been based on being a) lesser known, and b) unable to raise big money. You know who else had that problem? Bush 41. You know who else? Al Gore. Being a VP is a great launching point. Biden is not a seriously flawed candidate, except in the sense that he’s a two-time loser in primaries. So what? Clinton lost too, and didn’t cover herself in glory in the process. At least Joe bowed out gracefully. Clinton made every effort to hurt Obama on his way to the nomination, even after the race was lost to her. > > IT’ll be hard to respect Democrats if they get a choice between Biden and Clinton and pick Clinton. Many Democrats will choose the candidate they think has the best chance to win, which is entirely reasonable (and respectable) criteria. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/53 "2015-08-04T15:27:32Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Perhaps they’re in this together? So when the dems start in on each other, they can lob soft balls, at each other, and each look clever and more dignified than the field by turn! The 2008 primary season, which led to Bill Clinton having to aver that he is not a [racist](http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/04/bill-clinton-i-am-not-a-racist/), was hardly a matter of softballs. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/54 "2015-08-04T15:40:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Um, honesty? Being able to relate to regular folks? That’s how you got Sarah Palin. That isn’t a good thing, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/55 "2015-08-04T16:02:10Z")
And GWB. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/56 "2015-08-04T16:16:39Z")
I’m another Democrat who’ll only vote for Clinton when she’s the last Democrat on the ballot. She’s got the money, but her dominance in the polls right now is based on nothing more than name recognition (benefiting from her husband’s legacy) and the air of inevitability. It’s way, way early. I’d welcome Biden in the race and would have to think hard about whether to support him or Sanders. I like Sanders’ positions more, but Biden is the more likely to actually get things done and be able to work with a hostile congress. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/57 "2015-08-04T16:18:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Many Democrats will choose the candidate they think has the best chance to win, which is entirely reasonable (and respectable) criteria. And that would also be Biden. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/58 "2015-08-04T16:20:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And that would also be Biden. I’m not going to take your word for it. You have a very poor track record in predicting Presidential races, and a very poor track record in analyzing the motivations and desires of Democratic voters. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/59 "2015-08-04T16:24:46Z")
YOu don’t need to rely on my prediction. You just have to look at the polls once BIden actually enters the race and then rationalize why you’d want the less honest, less electable candidate. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899/60 "2015-08-04T16:41:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > YOu don’t need to rely on my prediction. You just have to look at the polls once BIden actually enters the race and then rationalize why you’d want the less honest, less electable candidate. It’s certainly possible that Biden would be a better candidate. I would consider voting for him in the primary, and happily support him against any Republican. But right now I see no reason to consider him a stronger candidate – the polling strongly suggests that Democrats like Hillary more, and would turn out more strongly for her. We’ll see. Considering that Biden has done nothing (raised money, hired staff, etc.) towards actually running, I think he’s probably decided to hold back as a “break glass in emergency” candidate in case something sinks Hillary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-runs-for-president-how-screwed-is-hillary/726899.md?page=4)