# Joe Biden would be an ineffective president who would accomplish very little, if anything. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 8, 2020, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102 "2020-03-08T14:09:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/41 "2020-03-08T22:28:16Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > Yeah, well to be clear I am also dubious that a Biden presidency would facilitate a Democratic Senate at all. There’s just so much papering over Biden’s vulnerabilities as a candidate now, but I feel like having him at the top of the ticket will induce a not-insignificant amount of young people who would otherwise have voted for Sanders to stay home. Less young people are voting for Sanders in this primary than they did in the 2016 primary. > [@2ManyTacos](#): > > And yes, I am arguing that the Democrats need to be ruthlessly efficient in enacting the kinds of reforms I mentioned in the OP. The bottom line is that _not_ doing those things will, again, cause nothing of consequence to ever actually pass. Consequently, the only thing Democrats will ever do is _talk_ about their wonderful leftwing ideas without ever enacting them, and the party will just forever be annihilated in wave elections by fed up voters. > > That is not a sustainable dynamic, and Biden will just perpetuate it. Young people will not suddenly vanish from the electorate because Sanders does not win. Young people who hold the progressive ideals should/must continue to hold on to them as they age and vote again in the next elections. But first, you must vote for the next best thing (or least worst thing, if you insist) in this election. Sulking and staying home because you don’t get your way in one of the most consequential elections of your young lives is no way to behave as an adult. Learn to accept that you will not always get your way and almost certainly not on your first or second time at the ballot box. Seriously. Stop this. Enough. If you want to be taken seriously, act like responsible adults that understand what’s at stake and be part of the solution. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/42 "2020-03-08T22:38:51Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Seriously. Stop this. Enough. If you want to be taken seriously, act like responsible adults that understand what’s at stake and be part of the solution. When did I ever say that _I,_ personally, will not vote for Biden? I would vote for a pet rock before I vote for Trump or stay home. My point with this thread is that Biden will almost certainly be an ineffective and unsuccessful president, and that his failures to address Democrats’ structural barriers will ensure future Democratic electoral annihilations. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/43 "2020-03-08T22:42:59Z")
It isn’t so much that I want Bernie, I want _America_ to want Bernie, or what he more or less stands for. Recent evidence is that we do not. And “we” includes me because of that Pledge. And that includes the part about people who aren’t as smart as me have the same right to power. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/44 "2020-03-08T22:43:12Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > When did I ever say that _I,_ personally, will not vote for Biden? I would vote for a pet rock before I vote for Trump or stay home. My point with this thread is that Biden will almost certainly be an ineffective and unsuccessful president, and that his failures to address Democrats’ structural barriers will ensure future Democratic electoral annihilations. In that case, you are to be commended. There are some who don’t share your considered view. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/45 "2020-03-08T22:59:16Z")
My question is “What would an effectual president even look like?” The big problems that people hate the establishment for don’t really seem to be much within the president’s purview. I’m not saying the president has no power, but the things we want the president to do are basically just “undo the cruel and stupid things Trump has done” which basically any Democrat would do. If that’s “ineffectual,” then what’s left? The radical things that need done are at the congressional level mostly, with some rights-based stuff at the judicial level. **Everything you listed is a congressional power, not a presidential one.** Neither Biden nor Bernie would be able to get those passed. Given how even many Democrats attack people like AOC, it seems unlikely that even a Democrat supermajority in both houses would actually get the good stuff done. Democrats by and large sure seem to like the status quo before Trump was elected. And that is what allowed a populist Republican to take power, even if he couldn’t actually do anything truly populist from his position. Note, none of this is saying Trump isn’t awful and destructive. He is causing damage. But that’s him making bad changes. The president seems to have little power to making substantial good changes beyond the undoing of bad ones. If that isn’t enough–if undoing the destruction isn’t enough–then no Democratic president will be enough. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/46 "2020-03-08T23:21:00Z")
The thing is, a “return to normal” requires a President who’s very far outside of the normal. The Republicans have already made big changes to this country, by taking unprecedented actions. Reversing those changes will require unprecedented responses. A President who considers himself bound by precedent will not be able to return to normality. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2020, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/47 "2020-03-08T23:21:14Z")
IMHO, step one to make the USA a better place is to get Trump out. It is the initial solution from which all other solutions flow. Trump is the number one crisis facing America and probably the world. Get him out. Worry about what comes next after he and his grifter kids are gone. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/48 "2020-03-09T00:52:00Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > If Biden does nothing else but put back the same protections that existed under the Obama administration, the environment will already be better off than it is under Trump. There’s no reason to assume the corporate oligarchy would bother walking back anything Trump has done, since it serves them just fine as is. > [@](#): > > Oh, so you prefer the guy that’s going to drill holes into the lifeboats? You prefer that people who don’t agree with your views deserve to continue to suffer until they see things your way. You prefer to watch the further undermining of democracy, furtherance of corruption, dismantling of human rights and civil society, because you can’t get your way. Smart, Aleq. Not sure who, exactly, you think you’re referring to here unless you’re actually Chris Matthews IRL and honestly believe that guillotines in Central Park are a thing that progressives intend to implement. You’re hysterical and nowhere near the actual reality of Bernie, who actually, no shit, asks people at his rallies to look around them and imagine fighting just as hard to help those they don’t know as they would fight to help their friends and family. So far Trump and Biden both only say they want to help the rich to help themselves to whatever crumbs we have left. If that doesn’t scare you, but Bernie does, then there’s way more going on in your head than psych meds can fix. You could stop babbling and freaking out for a minute and actually THINK about why it scares you so to think that healthcare, housing and a living wage are human rights that should be guaranteed to every citizen. That our resources and productivity would be better spent mending our broken infrastructure and making our lives better rather than spending it all on endless regime change wars and killing brown people in countries we have no business interfering with. That the billions we spend every year propping up extractive and destructive industries would be better spent ensuring every child has enough to eat and a solid education. That rehabilitation is better than mindless punitive incarceration. That endless debt slavery is a terrible way to expect millions of people to spend their lives. That the right to fair, free elections without interference and ratfucking is something our founding fathers were trying really hard to guarantee to us. That endless surveillance and police state control have no business in a free society. Seriously, if the very idea of the American people having those things give you the skeery vapors then I don’t think you and I are actually a part of the same species. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/49 "2020-03-09T02:02:05Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > When did I ever say that _I,_ personally, will not vote for Biden? I would vote for a pet rock before I vote for Trump or stay home. My point with this thread is that Biden will almost certainly be an ineffective and unsuccessful president, and that his failures to address Democrats’ structural barriers will ensure future Democratic electoral annihilations. Because your attacks on him here are increasing trumps chance of winning, that’s why. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/50 "2020-03-09T02:24:21Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > You could stop babbling and freaking out for a minute and actually THINK about why it scares you so to think that healthcare, housing and a living wage are human rights that should be guaranteed to every citizen. Yeah, if you’re wondering why Sanders can’t break above 30-35%, this is a good part of it. No one voting Democratic is “scared” of poor people having health care or affordable housing or any of that stuff. People disagree about the route to take and it turns into “Well, I guess _you’re_ just a neoliberal Corporate Democrat who hates poor people and wants them all to starve and die!” and that leads right into “Ok, time to tune this weirdo out.” The messaging on this stuff is just awful the moment it touches anyone and fails to instantly convert them. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/51 "2020-03-09T02:33:47Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Yeah, if you’re wondering why Sanders can’t break above 30-35%, this is a good part of it. No one voting Democratic is “scared” of poor people having health care or affordable housing or any of that stuff. People disagree about the route to take and it turns into “Well, I guess _you’re_ just a neoliberal Corporate Democrat who hates poor people and wants them all to starve and die!” and that leads right into “Ok, time to tune this weirdo out.” > > The messaging on this stuff is just awful the moment it touches anyone and fails to instantly convert them. Honestly that says way more about you than it does me. As for “instantly,” maybe you ought to consider that SOME of us have been on this exact same thought train for DECADES and are, quite frankly, really sick and tired of watching our fellow citizens continue to buy the bullshit, drink the kool-aid and dive back into that burning barn like freaked out horses losing their shit. The difference this time around is that we are running out of time to turn the climate change trend around and we’re getting awfully close to passing the point of no return, which means many of us are dealing with the reality that our great grandkids are likely to die screaming on a burning planet and yeah, that does tend to reduce our civility just a tad. On the other hand, since we’re processing and sitting with that now we won’t be freaking out when it comes because we already saw it coming and made our peace and are intent on living out what remains of our lives in as much quiet and comfort as we can eke out while the rest of the planet is thrashing and having their death throes. It sucks to be me right now but it’s gonna suck way harder for you later on. C’est la vie and shit. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/52 "2020-03-09T03:06:19Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Honestly that says way more about you than it does me. Sure, whatever gets you through the primary. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/53 "2020-03-09T09:20:25Z")
Biden will be excellent at one hugely important part of the job, restoring the alliances of the US and shoring up the global economic system after the turmoil inflicted by Trump. The level of experience he brings is astonishing and probably unprecedented in US history. Biden was cutting deals with Gromyko in the late 70s and he is literally cited as an [example](https://www.expertnegotiator.com/tip/knowing-your-opponent-critical-solving-disputes/)by negotiation experts. As far as getting major legislation, his prospects are bleak but that is true of any Democratic president. Moving sharply to the left is simply not a solution not matter how satisfying it might be for some Democrats. It will simply mean more swing seats lost and stronger GOP resistance. The best hope for the Democrats is a president who is at least moderately popular in purple state/districts and able to apply a bit of pressure on a few GOP legislators. While I wouldn’t hold high hopes, Biden will be less bad at this than Bernie and most other Democratic contenders. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/54 "2020-03-09T10:16:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The thing is, a “return to normal” requires a President who’s very far outside of the normal. The Republicans have already made big changes to this country, by taking unprecedented actions. Reversing those changes will require unprecedented responses. A President who considers himself bound by precedent will not be able to return to normality. While I could conceivably see that in the abstract, I can’t make it work with what Trump actually did. He issued executive orders, which a normal president would also issue. He didn’t staff agencies, allowing them to flounder and a normal president would staff them. He dropped a previous treaty, but a normal president could enter a treaty. He got rid of the white house press briefings and barred journalist access, but a normal president would have briefings and allow access. He destroyed foreign relations, but a normal president would try to establish them. He did also appoint someone to the Supreme Court. That would require a radical change to fix: increasing the number of judges. But **the president does not have the power to do that.** Congress sets the number of Supreme Court justices. So the only way that happens is a supermajority in both houses, and then actually getting the Dems to agree it’s a good idea. The only way a single man could be the difference is to convince congress, and Biden’s got more pull with other Democrats than Bernie does. The only president I can think of that Biden (or Sanders) needs to not follow is the one by Johnson when he pardoned Nixon. But I do not see anyone who isn’t a Republican pardoning Trump. So what am I missing that Trump did that a normal, precedent-following president would not be able to undo that a maverick, precedent-ignoring president would be able to do? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/55 "2020-03-09T11:23:54Z")
It would be very hard to get Americans unified behind a radical agenda: the pain just isn’t there. At the time of the French Revolution a large portion of Frenchmen were experiencing actual hunger pains. Among concerned Americans today, many mostly wish they could afford to replace their two-year old iPhone. (Look how OWS fizzled out.) Inslee might have been a good choice, but he ran exclusively on climate change, an issue many Americans don’t care about. I had hopes for Elizabeth Warren; I still don’t understand why she fizzled out. But finally, to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, \*\*\*you campaign until November with the candidate you have, not the one you wish you had. \*\*\* Biden has severe flaws, but not as many as Bernie. With Biden the Ds may get the WH and the Senate; with Bernie they’d get neither. > [@SmartAleq](#): > > … [This article](https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/03/democrats-you-really-do-not-want-to-nominate-joe-biden) is pretty comprehensive regarding the massive problems Biden poses to anyone thinking of voting the guy in–up to and including that “return to normalcy” bullshit. Let’s focus on one charge: that Biden was a cheerleader for Cheney’s War in Iraq. (First let me ask a question: Do I remember correctly that there was a very large American force already in the desert south of Iraq BEFORE the AUMF was voted on? I Googled and Wiki’ed to refresh my memory on this but my Googlefu was lacking.) Frankly I get tired of these claims that Clinton or Biden were war-mongers for that vote. A majority of D Senators voted for the AUMF. And Biden, like Clinton, went on record saying the hope was to _avoid_ war. It hardly seems a far-fetched hope: Iraq knew they were doomed in a shooting war and would have found some accommodation _ **but Cheney-Bush rushed into War.** _ Read the following excerpts and then say if it is reasonable to consider Biden a cheerleader for the Cheney-Bush adventure: > [@](#): > > Biden supported a narrower war power authorization prioritizing the WMDs. He joined Republicans Sens. Richard Lugar and Chuck Hagel, the latter of whom would go on to be Obama’s defense secretary years later, in crafting an amendment to the war authorization to limit the scope of Bush’s powers. > > But another Democrat foiled that effort: Rep. Dick Gephardt, the House minority leader, struck a deal with Bush to authorize the use of military force in a war — a move that angered Democratic lawmakers in the House and Senate, including Biden. Gephardt, at the time weighing a presidential run, was accused of playing politics. > … > Biden said in a July 2003 interview with CNN: > > ``` > I’m not suggesting there are not successes. I want us to succeed there, but everybody you will speak to who knows anything about this will tell you we need another 5,000 — our own people tell us we need another 5,000 European police officers on the ground now to help train their police. We need another 30,000 forces from other countries to help alleviate the strain on our forces. ... If we don’t make real progress very soon, what will happen is we’ll lose the support of the Iraqi people, and then there will be hell to pay. All we’re trying to do is get us to face up to that straight-up now, make the changes necessary, and let’s win this peace. > > ``` > > … > “For me, the issue was never whether we had to deal with Saddam, but when and how we dealt with Saddam,” Biden said July 2003. “And it’s precisely the when and how that I think this administration got wrong. We went to war too soon. We went to war with too few troops. We went to war without the world, when we could have had many with us, and we’re paying the price for it now.” [In 2003 Biden challenged the Bush team’s candor.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uFjr0Vr1ZY) ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/56 "2020-03-09T11:56:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > It isn’t so much that I want Bernie, I want _America_ to want Bernie, or what he more or less stands for. Recent evidence is that we do not. This. As Upper Midwesterners, you and I _get_ this, and many fellow Dopers do not. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/57 "2020-03-09T12:21:50Z")
I think there are some unrealistic expectations of what a president can do. We’ve seen that a president can and did act destructively pretty much on his own, naming cabinet members who are incompetent and/or hostile to the agencies they lead. Actually getting something positive done is a bit harder. I don’t believe Sanders has any magical powers to take us from where we are to Medicare for all and no student debt. That just isn’t realistic. Sanders has shown no willingness to negotiate with others or to accept anything that isn’t 100% what he wants. You don’t pass legislation that way, which is why he got so few(if any) bills passed into law. It’s not going to be all rainbows and unicorns the instant President Sanders takes the oath. What I expect from Biden is: restore trust among our allies, don’t kneel before Putin, nominate qualified liberal to moderate justices, shore up the ACA, get a new Voting Rights Act passed, and put some more fairness in the tax code. Not Medicare for all instantly- maybe a baby step is to reduce the age to 64, Better to take a small step at a time and not go all Thelma and Louise. Most of all, have a president who isn’t batshit crazy, doesn’t tweet on the toilet, reads security briefings, and doesn’t make everything about him. I’m more confident that Biden has the ability to act as president for everybody, not just those who voted for him, than I am of Sanders. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/58 "2020-03-09T12:23:10Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > The left-most progressive wing of the Democratic party appears to have been roundly rejected by the majority of lib/prog/dem voters, i.e. Biden vs. Sanders. To continue to insist that a very progressive candidate (like Sanders, for example) would have better luck in advancing progressive policies faced with a mixed Dem/Rep congress and electorate is simply a denial of reality. > > It’s a bit sad and ironic that the wokest of progressives refuse to accept “no” for an answer. This bears repeating. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Because your attacks on him here are increasing trumps chance of winning, that’s why. Indeed, like Bernie’s attack ads. Tell me why I should vote for Bernie, not why I shouldn’t vote for Biden. > [@JKellyMap](#): > > This. As Upper Midwesterners, you and I _get_ this, and many fellow Dopers do not. As an upper Midwesterner – is it the Scandinavian influence? – I love what Bernie stands for, but I find him unpleasant and not a good instrument of change. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/59 "2020-03-09T12:39:16Z")
Yup. Though I grew up 20 miles from Brooklyn, and lived in Vermont for most of one year, so I also appreciate Bernie’s style for what it is, and I value his passion and commitment — of many if his fans, too — to truly important causes. He will continue to be an important voice toward a better future for all of us. But for the next several months…we MUST all get behind Biden. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102/60 "2020-03-09T13:13:12Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Not sure who, exactly, you think you’re referring to here unless you’re actually Chris Matthews IRL and honestly believe that guillotines in Central Park are a thing that progressives intend to implement. You’re hysterical and nowhere near the actual reality of Bernie, who actually, no shit, asks people at his rallies to look around them and imagine fighting just as hard to help those they don’t know as they would fight to help their friends and family. So far Trump and Biden both only say they want to help the rich to help themselves to whatever crumbs we have left. If that doesn’t scare you, but Bernie does, then there’s way more going on in your head than psych meds can fix. Yeah, _I’m_ the one being hysterical. > [@SmartAleq](#): > > You could stop babbling and freaking out for a minute and actually THINK about why it scares you so to think that healthcare, housing and a living wage are human rights that should be guaranteed to every citizen. That our resources and productivity would be better spent mending our broken infrastructure and making our lives better rather than spending it all on endless regime change wars and killing brown people in countries we have no business interfering with. That the billions we spend every year propping up extractive and destructive industries would be better spent ensuring every child has enough to eat and a solid education. That rehabilitation is better than mindless punitive incarceration. That endless debt slavery is a terrible way to expect millions of people to spend their lives. Nothing about Bernie scares me. I find he’s been less than forthright about what his policies will actually cost in taxes and who the lion’s share of taxes will fall upon (hint: lower and middle class). I’m all in for the kinds of meaningful changes it will take to achieve a more just society. And you have nothing to teach me about living in a social democracy. I was raised in one and lived half my adult life in one. I’ve actually put my tax dollars where you’ve merely paid lip service so far. So don’t lecture me. > [@SmartAleq](#): > > That the right to fair, free elections without interference and ratfucking is something our founding fathers were trying really hard to guarantee to us. That endless surveillance and police state control have no business in a free society. You should put that in a strongly worded letter to the Trump administration and cc: Putin. Otherwise, I don’t know why this is relevant here. But since you brought it up, perhaps you can show us where the founding fathers talked about democratic socialism. I was pretty sure they were free markets capitalism types, with a little slavery on the side. Maybe I’m wrong. I’m not from around these parts. > [@SmartAleq](#): > > Seriously, if the very idea of the American people having those things give you the skeery vapors then I don’t think you and I are actually a part of the same species. The “American People” given the choice between a moderate and a socialist, chose the moderate. Maybe take it up with them and stop projecting “skeery vapors” on people who don’t see things your way. > [@SmartAleq](#): > > Honestly that says way more about you than it does me. As for “instantly,” maybe you ought to consider that SOME of us have been on this exact same thought train for DECADES and are, quite frankly, really sick and tired of watching our fellow citizens continue to buy the bullshit, drink the kool-aid and dive back into that burning barn like freaked out horses losing their shit. The difference this time around is that we are running out of time to turn the climate change trend around and we’re getting awfully close to passing the point of no return, which means many of us are dealing with the reality that our great grandkids are likely to die screaming on a burning planet and yeah, that does tend to reduce our civility just a tad. On the other hand, since we’re processing and sitting with that now we won’t be freaking out when it comes because we already saw it coming and made our peace and are intent on living out what remains of our lives in as much quiet and comfort as we can eke out while the rest of the planet is thrashing and having their death throes. It sucks to be me right now but it’s gonna suck way harder for you later on. Again, _who_ is being hysterical? > [@SmartAleq](#): > > C’est la vie and shit. Mostly the latter, tho. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-biden-would-be-an-ineffective-president-who-would-accomplish-very-little-if-anything/849102.md?page=4)