# Joe Blow, Esquire? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 29, 2002, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-blow-esquire/111390 "2002-05-29T17:24:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![occ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@occ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/occ)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-blow-esquire/111390/21 "2002-05-30T05:48:23Z")
Yeah, Cece’s column seems to say that it’s simply short for “Attorney at Law”, and that there are rules of usage (of course). I was formerly under the impression that it was just a formal way to address a letter – similar to “Master Joe Blow”. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-blow-esquire/111390/22 "2002-05-30T13:59:28Z")
“Master” is how you address a child. In the U.S., lawyer and attorney are essentially synonymous; it’s really a matter of style as to which you’d use. (Attorney is probably a little more formal.) The tasks of attorneys in the U.S. are split in the UK between two people, the solicitor and the barrister. My understanding (maybe quite faulty) is that barristers actually argue in court and solicitors have the contact with the client (as well as doing all the cool stuff in areas of law other than litigation, such as negotiating complex business transactions.) In the U.S., the terms solicitor and barrister aren’t really proper. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![occ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@occ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/occ)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-blow-esquire/111390/23 "2002-05-30T15:49:43Z")
Cliffy: isn’t the “using Master to address a child” thing simply something that sprung up because it was “cute”? I’m assuming that, at one point, “Master” was a formal appelation used when addressing correspondence. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-blow-esquire/111390/24 "2002-05-30T16:15:02Z")
I’ve never heard of that (and I have seen “Master” used for children in books from the 1800’s at least), but I’m no etymologist. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-blow-esquire/111390/25 "2002-05-30T16:34:42Z")
See if you can find a couple of books: _Titles and Forms of Address_ by Armiger _Debrett’s Correct Form_ by Patrick W. Montague-Smith If you want to get really snooty, the term “Esquire” properly refers to the son of a knight or a baronet. One of the above-mentioned books contains a long rant, bemoaning the fact that in common usage, it “is now used by anyone who cannot claim any higher title”. In the USA, lawyers’ use of the term is more a custom than a law. It is more common in the eastern states than in the west. None of the lawyers in my town uses it. In Scotland, the title “Master” has a specific usage. I don’t remember for sure, but I think it refers to the heir of a clan chief, or some such celebrity. Armiger and Montague-Smith can fill you in, in excruciating detail. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-blow-esquire/111390/26 "2002-05-30T17:38:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Is there any difference at all between a solicitor, a lawyer, and an attorney, or do they all mean the same thing? A “lawyer” is anyone licensed to practice law. Sometimes people call anyone with a law degree a “lawyer,” even if they haven’t passed the bar. Strictly speaking, an “attorney” can be any kind of agent or representative, basically someone who can act in your place as a deputy or substitute. An “attorney at law” is a lawyer. In some states, such as South Carolina, I think, there is a higher rank of lawyer called “counsellor.” This is a title that is granted by the bar association to those who have excelled. In England, there are two kinds of lawyers. A solicitor is your ordinary kind of lawyer. If you decide you need a lawyer, you visit a solicitor’s firm. However, in certain courts, a solicitor is not allowed to plead at the bar. Only barristers are permitted to argue in the highest courts, but this seems to be changing, with more and more barristers’ jobs being done by solicitors. Traditionally, barristers had to be of a certain social rank, and were considered more posh than solicitors. However, it is also the case that in serving the client, the barrister is sort of considered junior to the solicitor. The client belongs to the solicitor. The barrister is not allowed to accept money directly from the client. The solicitor “instructs” the barrister with regard to the case. In common law there were several kinds of courts, each with different names for the kinds of lawyers who practiced there: Court of Law – attorney and barrister Chancery Court (Equity Court) – solicitor and attorney Admiralty and other courts – proctor and attorney Or, something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-blow-esquire/111390/27 "2002-05-30T17:42:28Z")
Also, barristers don’t belong to firms. Although a barrister may share chambers with other barristers and pitch in to hire secretaries and clerks, each barrister is considered to be a one-person operation, and doesn’t share his fees with the other barristers in chambers. Often, the clerk in chambers becomes quite powerful, because he or she can decide which barrister to send business when a solicitor comes in with a case. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-blow-esquire/111390/28 "2002-05-30T21:17:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by javaman \* > \*\* > But there’s a significant difference between _Doctor_ and _Esquire_. _Doctor_ specifically means that you have a doctorate level degree. > > _Esquire_, on the other hand, still has vestigial usages besides designating someone as an attorney. So I’d assume I could still call myself _Esq._ if I wanted to, as suggested by the mailbag link above. Not that I would now, of course: When I used to do it I was just a dorky kid who thought it sounded cool. Well, lawyers in the U.S. also have a doctoral level degree. Sua ---
**Author:** ![peepthis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@peepthis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peepthis)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2002, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-blow-esquire/111390/29 "2002-05-31T00:50:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuaSponte \* > \*\*Well, lawyers in the U.S. also have a doctoral level degree. > > Sua \*\* Not necessarily. There are still some states left that don’t require lawyers to earn a J.D. (Juris Doctor) before taking the bar exam. ---
**Author:** ![mapsmith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/848f3c/32.png) [@mapsmith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mapsmith)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2002, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-blow-esquire/111390/30 "2002-05-31T01:11:52Z")
I liked the fact that because I am no longer a yeoman (wage slave) I can call myself a Gentleman. i.e. Gentleman Smith. However, I also feel that I can call myself Master. I do have a Master’s Degree and feel that I could use Master (or Maestro, or in Spanish- Doctor) But I will stay just Mapsmith. That describes me best. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2002, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-blow-esquire/111390/31 "2002-05-31T01:15:41Z")
The degree that is now given out at most American law schools as a Juris Doctor (J.D.) was, 30 or 40 years ago, usually called a Bachelor of Laws (LL.B.). As far as I can tell, the conditions and requirements were still the same. Only the name of the degree was changed. I wonder whether most state bar associations require a “J.D.,” explictly, or just “a law degree from an accredited law school.” If that’s the case, then most states don’t strictly require lawyers to have “a doctoral-level degree.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-blow-esquire/111390.md?page=1)