# Joe Conason of Salon.com is a Doper! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 16, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056 "2003-01-16T20:52:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/1 "2003-01-16T20:52:41Z")
[Joe Conason](http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2003/01/16/bush/index.html), writer of a near-daily Bush-bash column on Salon, has actually quoted Cecil today! > [@](#): > > Why was the Andover dean so concerned about Bush’s prospects at Yale? Perhaps he glanced at Bush’s SAT score of 1206, above average but nowhere near the level needed for acceptance at an Ivy League school. (According to Cecil Adams, who write The Straight Dope column, Bush’s score was almost 200 points lower than the average for Yale freshmen circa 1970.) Bush’s middling SAT score, incidentally, is roughly the same as that for most of the black students admitted to selective schools in a major Mellon Foundation study that began in 1976. I’m sure you’re all just as proud as I am of the work of our Fearless Leader in the fight against ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/2 "2003-01-16T21:03:39Z")
Cecil Adams and Joe Conason, a match made in heaven. ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/3 "2003-01-16T21:11:14Z")
What?!?! Cecil Adams is Joe Conason??? Has anyone told Ed Zotti yet? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/4 "2003-01-16T22:27:47Z")
Great. Joe Conason implies something similar to Bush being too stupid to go to Yale, Cecil’s numbers agree, and Elvis puts two and two together and cheers, as his opinion has been vindicated. _sigh_ Hey, it’s always nice to see someone associating with the Dope, but man, that agenda gets me worked up. Bush’s SAT scores are higher than mine were, and nobody who knows me would call me a dummy. Pardon the knee jerk here, everyone. Just interjecting a pointless opinion here. I understand that this was about someone apparently popular reading the Dope. I really do. As for that, good on him. But the above story is hardly what I would call “Fighting Ignorance”. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/5 "2003-01-16T22:32:33Z")
SAT : Intelligence :: Modular furniture : A. peanutbutter B. border collie C. Dilbert D. Lenny and Carl ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/6 "2003-01-16T22:38:23Z")
Make that last one Lenny and Squiggy and I’ll take choice D. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/7 "2003-01-16T22:52:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Bush’s SAT scores are higher than mine were, and nobody who knows me would call me a dummy. **Doors** : If one could score over 1200, especially on the old SAT scale, one is hardly dumb, so that’s not the accusation being leveled. But the most selective colleges (Yale is certainly in that group) turn away a lot of very smart teenagers every year. The point seems to be more consistent with your first point: that (absent special preferences) Dubya wasn’t smart enough _to get into Yale_. In fact, his scores are in line with others who’ve gotten into places similar to Yale via special preferences _of a different sort._ So what you have here is the beneficiary of one preference (for well-connected rich people) getting roughly the same helping hand as the beneficiaries of another (minority) preference - _and then objecting to the latter_. Conason seems to be trying to say something about hypocrisy. I think he may have a point. And it’s always good to see another fan of the Dope out there. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jk1245](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@jk1245](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jk1245)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/8 "2003-01-16T22:55:59Z")
Not too sure I like the Dope associated with this piece of “journalism”. I’m by no means Bush fanatic, but a 1206 SAT isn’t exactly “middling”. Anyway, SAT scores are only one part of the acceptance criteria. Most private universities give priority to the progeny af alumni, and make no secret of that fact. There’s a lot of legit issues to criticize Bush (or just about any politician) on. His college admission isn’t, IMHO, one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/9 "2003-01-16T23:00:02Z")
SAT scoring is weird. Two tests, vebal and math. IIRC, the lowest possible score is 200 points; you get 200 even if you turn in a black test sheet. The highest possible score is 800. When you lump the two results together, as people usually do, the lowest score would be 400 and the highest, 1600. Presumably, Bush’s 1206 was out of a possible 1600. I’d be curious about his separate scores. I doubt it was 603 and 603. Maybe a high math score and a low verbal? When I was in high school (early '60s), we were told that we needed at least 500 on each test if we wanted to get into college – but that was for any old college. You were believed to need higher scores for the Ivy League. ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/10 "2003-01-16T23:01:17Z")
Excuse me, I mean “… a BLANK test sheet.” ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/11 "2003-01-16T23:11:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hazel \* > Presumably, Bush’s 1206 was out of a possible 1600. I’d be curious about his separate scores. Well then you should read [the Cecil column which that article links to](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010622.html). Bush’s score was 566 verbal / 640 math. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/12 "2003-01-16T23:30:55Z")
**Airman** , it’s not too great a leap for you, is it, to suppose that someone who has linked to a Cecil column most probably had actually read it? I’m “cheering” for Cecil in this case, not Conason. Perhaps your blinkers are on a little too tight. SAT scores mean approximately squat IMHO, if anyone is asking. It’s what you do with your gifts that counts. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/13 "2003-01-17T14:14:40Z")
You know, Elvis, if you were anything other than a One-Trick-Pony I probably wouldn’t have said anything. That’s not too great a leap, either, is it? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/14 "2003-01-17T14:31:29Z")
What’s Elvis’ one-trick? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/15 "2003-01-17T14:56:58Z")
I would guess that **Airman Doors** considers it to be the exact opposite of _his_ one-trick. Now cut it out, or somebody’s going to move this to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/16 "2003-01-17T15:03:43Z")
Touche, Ike. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/17 "2003-01-17T16:58:50Z")
When did they change the SAT scores to only even numbers? 1206 wasn’t even a possible score when I took the test in 1996 - you could only get a score that was a multiple of ten. My score was, btw, almost identical to George W. (1200), and there’s no freaking way in hell that I would ever have been admitted to Yale. I never would have even dreamed of applying to Yale with my (fairly good) grades and that SAT score. That doesn’t mean I’m stupid, it means that Yale is an extremely selective school. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/18 "2003-01-17T17:10:04Z")
Kyla, it also means your father didn’t have the influence to get you into Yale. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/19 "2003-01-17T17:23:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*Kyla, it also means your father didn’t have the influence to get you into Yale. \*\* That is definitely true. He also didn’t have the influence to get me into Berkeley, despite his actually having gone there. I guess public universities don’t care about legacy as much as private universities. Alas, such are the fortunes of us regular folk. We have to settle for universities appropriate to our academic achievement. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056/20 "2003-01-17T17:32:59Z")
Kyla, it is possible to score a 1206 on the SAT. If you take the SAT with essay (which I did, in 1992), the essay portion accounts for the odd points. FTR, I got an 1142, which would keep me out of most of the top-tier colleges unless I had stellar grades. Robin [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-conason-of-salon-com-is-a-doper/149056.md?page=2)