# Joe Lieberman Can Kiss My Godless Backside **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 28, 2000, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026 "2000-08-28T13:34:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/21 "2000-08-28T16:26:55Z")
I was very disappointed to read this thread about Lieberman. I was hoping that as a Jew, one of the most persecuted peoples in all of history, he would tolerate all views. The problem is, if freedom of and from religion is key to you, who do you vote for? I thought I read that it was likely that there would be some Supreme Court justices retiring in the next term (I will have to verify this), and I sure as shit don’t want a conservative administration appointing new justices if I can help it. (Not even a “compassionate” conservative). If it turns out that it’s likely there will be new Supreme Court justices appointed, I’m going to have to still go with Gore/Lieberman. My gamble is that long-term this will be better for freedom of/from religion than if Bush appoints new justices. ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/22 "2000-08-28T16:27:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*You really can’t understand how an atheist would find his remarks offensive and frightening? I don’t know what else I can do to explain it for you. \*\* You know what I think the problem is? As an observant Jew, I am used to politicians saying religious things that I don’t agree with. I mean, yeah, I agree with you in theory… politics and religion shouldn’t mix. But, I’m more pragmatic about the whole situation. And, I don’t see why Leiberman’s remarks offend and frighten you more than Bush’s. Or Buchanan’s. Or Carter’s. Or any other politician’s. Also, remember to whom Lieberman was speaking at the time. This address was given to a Church audience… I think you can cut the man a little slack. When speaking to Church groups, he emphasizes religion. I’ll bet that if he was invited to **DavidB** ’s house, his tune would be different. That’s politics. Ignoring his beliefs, what do you think of the man’s stand on issues? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/23 "2000-08-28T16:29:17Z")
As unpleasant and distasteful Joe’s speach was to me, I find that I can rationalize his motivation for making these statements. Politics is a dirty game and not a single successful politician exists that cannot speak out of both sides of his face. I think this was simply a calculated attempt at trying to win over the undecided leftish conservative voters. Perhaps even an attempt to lure away some left leaning republicans. I find it crass. Disgusting. Immoral. And entirely political. You cannot trust any of these bastards farther than you can throw them. They’d sell their mother for a hundred votes. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/24 "2000-08-28T16:35:44Z")
Thanks, Nen, you explained it better than I could. This whole thing is very depressing—like Revtim, I just don’t know what to do. I guess Gore/Lieberman ARE the lesser of the evils, but still . . . Sdimbert—His other views? Well, I don’t like how he was the first Democrat to attack Clinton, and I don’t like his voting for the anti-gay Defense of Marriage Act. But that just puts him in league with just about every other pol. I repeat, I want to lobby for a “none of the bastards!” choice on the November ballot . . . ---
**Author:** ![Nen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Nen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nen)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/25 "2000-08-28T16:38:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sdimbert \* > Also, remember to whom Lieberman was speaking at the time. This address was given to a Church audience… I think you can cut the man a little slack. [snip] Ignoring his beliefs, what do you think of the man’s stand on issues? Sure, Lieberman was speaking to a religious congregation, but does a politicians platform change as a result of the audience to which he addresses. Lieberman stated, “As a people, we need to reaffirm our faith and renew the dedication of our nation and ourselves to God and God’s purposes.” I’d be damn confused if Lieberman felt that the nation needs to dedicate itself to god only while he addresses the theistically oriented. His stance on the nation and god seems like an issue which is an integral part of his platform. You can’t ignore his beliefs in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/26 "2000-08-28T16:38:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sdimbert \* > \*\* > And, I don’t see why Leiberman’s remarks offend and frighten you more than Bush’s. Or Buchanan’s. Or Carter’s. Or any other politician’s. \*\* Speaking for me. They don’t. they do illustrate that atheists and those who favor not having prayer in schools can’t trust him anymore than they can trust bush. It simply shows how much the two canidates and they’re Veeps are alike. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Ignoring his beliefs, what do you think of the man’s stand on issues? \*\* Also fairly conservative, moral, and scary. His stand on the entertainment industry is frightening. ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/27 "2000-08-28T16:39:07Z")
This statement was reported in the Washington Post immediately after Gore named Lieberman as his VP pick: “He (Lieberman) believes, as I do, that the earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof,” Mr. Gore said…“And as I stand next to him today, I believe in my heart that we are one step to truly being one nation under God.” **One Nation Under God???** I bet it doens’t stop the ACLU and the People for the American Way (et al.) from contributing to the Gore/Lieberman campaign, however. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/28 "2000-08-28T16:41:04Z")
> [@](#): > > You know what I think the problem is? As an observant Jew, I am used to politicians saying religious things that I don’t agree with. As an atheist, Izzy, I bet I have to deal with a lot more politicans saying religious things I don’t agree with than you do. Most politicians go for a generic “God” reference, which is not antithetical to _your_ beliefs, but it is for mine. I’d like to think that if a major politician implied that Jews couldn’t be moral, you’d be up in arms, and rightfully so–and I’d stand beside you. And if Bush, Carter or Buchanan makes comments excluding a group from genuine morality based on their religion, I’ll be pissed at them too. I’m mostly angry at Lieberman because I expected better from him; I already know Buchanan’s an ass. ---
**Author:** ![Nen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Nen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nen)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/29 "2000-08-28T16:41:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > I wish they had an “I don’t want ANY of 'em!” space on the ballot. Those votes should deduct one vote from each candidate. I’d love to see a politician with a negative vote count. ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/30 "2000-08-28T17:05:49Z")
**Gaudere** : Nice to see you! Haven’t debated with you in a while. Here goes… > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gaudere \* > \*\*…what if a Christian Veep canidate had said: "As a people we need to reaffirm our faith and renew the dedication of our nation and ourselves to Christ and Christ’s purpose . . . John Adams wrote that our constitution was made ONLY [my emphasis] for a Christian people . . . George Washington warned us never to indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without Christianity.” Wouldn’t a non-Christian feel that the prospective Veep had deliberately excluded non-Christians from the consititution and any claim to morality? > \*\* First of all, politicians have been saying things just like that for a while. See my earlier post to **Eve** - I’m used to it. Secondly, while your theoretical point is a good one, it is only theoretical. John Adams and George Washington never said those things. And, if they had, the 200+ years of American political history since them would have dealt with the issue already. \*\* > [@](#): > > I’m rather pissed with Lieberman too. I… don’t like being told I can’t maintain morality without religion. > \*\* I’m not going to touch that one with a ten-foot pole. I’ve been over that with you before. Suffice it to say that, yes, Lieberman is a religous candidate. I would love to see a Jew on the ticket despite his religion instead of because of it. But, I believe that he’s a more reasonable man than the media is making him out to be. I am willing to wait and see. After all, I have been warily watching religious politicians for a long time. At least this time he’s my kind of religion! **Nen** : \*\* > [@](#): > > Lieberman stated, “We know that the Constitution wisely separates church from state, but remember: the Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.” > > Does that statement not imply that atheism will not be tolerated? > \*\* Honestly? I don’t think so. I read his statement to be saying that religion is not a taboo in politics despite what some hard-line Seperationist might believe. \*\* > [@](#): > > Lieberman stated, “As a people, we need to reaffirm our faith and renew the dedication of our nation and ourselves to God and God’s purposes.” > > Does that statement not imply that religious overtone will heavily color political positions should Lieberman be elected? > \*\* Honestly? I don’t think so (again). Look, this is a county where schoolchildren recite, “One nation, under God…” isn’t it? Nobody clamors over the Seperation of Church and State on that one, do they? Don’t get caught up in his rhetoric. As I said earlier, politicians have been saying things like this for a long time. This time, it happens to be a Jewish one. BFD. \*\* > [@](#): > > Lieberman stated, “John Adams, second president of the United States, wrote that our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people,” > > Does that statement not exclude atheists from United States citizenship? > \*\* No, literally, it excludes them from the group of people for whom the Constitution was made. Whatever that means. :rolleyes: Look - The statement isn’t Leiberman’s, it’s Adams’. You got a problem with John Adams? You’re blaming the wrong person! For better or for worse, that statement is part of the cannon of American Political Literature. If you’re unhappy with that, you’re barking up the wrong tree. \*\* > [@](#): > > Lieberman stated,“George Washington warned us never to indulge the supposition ‘that morality can be maintained without religion.’” > > Does that statement not imply that atheists are immoral? > \*\* It implies that George Washington felt that morality can not be maintained without religion. The fact that Lieberman used it in a speach implies that he is like-minded. Good thing he’s not running for the office of Vice-President of Morality. \*\* > [@](#): > > Lieberman stated, “I want to talk to you this morning about another barrier that may fall, as well, as a result of my nomination,” which I assume was in conjunction with this statement, “I hope it will enable people, all people who are moved, to feel more free to talk about their faith and about their religion. And I hope that it will reinforce the belief that I feel as strongly as anything else, that there must be a place for faith in America’s public life.” > > Does that statement not imply that religious overtones will color public life as a result of executive order (barring those already conceded by the first amendment)? > \*\* No. It implies that Lieberman wants more people to be able to feel comfortable with their religions. Did you skip the part where he said, “all people who are moved”? I don’t mean to be rude, but I think you’re taking an alarmist viewpoint here, reading too much into his statements. Again, nothing he said here is new. It’s just Jewish this time. \*\* > [@](#): > > Lieberman stated, “Let us reach out together to those who may neither believe nor observe and reassure them that we share with them the core values of America, that our faith is not inconsistent with their freedom, and that our mission is not one of intolerance but one of love,” > > Does that statement not seem inconsistent with the others? Perhaps it isn’t. Perhaps we can continue to live the way we wish provided we subject ourselves to an inundation of religious propaganda. Perhaps atheists, agnostics, buddhists, et cetera are okay provided our beliefs aren’t represented in the government and Lieberman’s are. If he considers a belief in god to be a core value of America which does not differ from my belief, he’s got another thing coming. > \*\* Sarcastic much? \*\* > [@](#): > > Does this post clarify how one might take offense at Lieberman’s statements? > \*\* Yes, it does. It illustrates that if one takes every statement at face value, ignoring those that are inconsistent with one’s thesis and ascribes an evil motivation to ideas that are as old as the US itself, one might take offense. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/31 "2000-08-28T17:12:21Z")
Sdimbert—you may think I am just getting hysterical over Lieberman, but I get upset when ANY politician tries to cram religion down my throat (ANY religion). As someone else here pointed out, it’s particularly disappointing coming from a Jew and a Democrat. Just reminds us atheists how really despised and alienated we are in this country, still. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/32 "2000-08-28T17:19:35Z")
> [@](#): > > First of all, politicians have been saying things just like that for a while. See my earlier post to Eve - I’m used to it. If they’ve been saying that a person can’t be moral without worshipping Christ, they were _wrong_ to say that, and if I were you I’d be pissed off. I’m “used” to having atheism blamed for everything from pot-smoking to murder, but I’ll be damned if I let politicians go on their merry way denigrating other religions or the irreligious without me making my opinion of that rather loudly known. Why do you allow politicians to imply that non-Christians are less moral than a Christian, and not only do you not do anything about it yourself, you counsel others to do nothing either? Remember, “turn the other cheek” is a Christian tenet–us atheists and Jews _can_ fight for respect. 😉 And I think we _should_. > [@](#): > > But, I believe that he’s a more reasonable man than the media is making him out to be. I thought he was a reasonable man; I’m no longer terribly impressed with him. It’s not “the media” that said those things–he did. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/33 "2000-08-28T17:23:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gaudere \* > **As an atheist, Izzy…** Gets hard to tell these Orthodox Jews apart, sometimes… ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/34 "2000-08-28T17:27:35Z")
Huh? I know you’re Jewish–I was saying, “Speaking as I am as an atheist, Izzy, blah blah blah blah…” I was not saying you were an atheist, I was simply referring to you by name. Sorry if I was unclear. ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/35 "2000-08-28T17:32:44Z")
**Eve**. Again, lay off the extremist rhetoric. Nothing Lieberman has said even approaches suggesting that he despises atheists. Or anyone else for that matter. He didn’t cram religion (or anything else) down your throat. Hell, he wasn’t even talking to you. **EVERYBODY CALM DOWN!** [ul] [li]Stop labelling.[/li][li]Stop ascribing motives and motivations that are not obvious.[/li][li]Stop reading things into other people’s statements.[/li][li]Stop alarming others when no alarm is justified.[/li][/ul] All of these things are exactly what the media does wrong. **Gaudere** , > [@](#): > > \*\* > If they’ve been saying that a person can’t be moral without worshipping Christ, they were wrong to say that, and if I were you I’d be pissed off.\*\* First of all, just for clarity’s sake, _you_ mentioned Christ, not Joseph Lieberman. \*\* > [@](#): > > Why do you allow politicians to imply that non-Christians are less moral than a Christian, and not only do you not do anything about it yourself, you counsel others to do nothing either? > \*\* Look - Joe Lieberman doesn’t need my permission to say anything. I didn’t “allow” him to say what he said any more than I “allowed” the sun to rise this morning. I reiterate the first point I made in this post (to **Eve** ): _Calm down._ Lieberman wasn’t talking to you when he said the things he said. Of course you have the right to frame your opinions of him based on everything he says and does. But do yourself a favor and stop End-of-the-Worlding every statement he (and others) make. _USA Today_ and TV Newsmagazines do a good enough job of over-reacting, reading out of context and reading into people’s remarks. Let’s let our discussion here be of a more civilized nature. (And, BTW, **Izzy** was pointing out that the remarks to which you originally responded were mine, not his.) ---
**Author:** ![Nen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Nen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nen)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/36 "2000-08-28T17:46:23Z")
sdimbert, Gaudere stated: > [@](#): > > I…don’t like being told I can’t maintain morality without religion. To which you responded: > [@](#): > > I’m not going to touch that one with a ten-foot pole. However, you responded to my similar remark: > [@](#): > > Lieberman stated,“George Washington warned us never to indulge the supposition ‘that morality can be maintained without religion.’” > > Does that statement not imply that atheists are immoral? With this statement: [/quote] It implies that George Washington felt that morality can not be maintained without religion. The fact that Lieberman used it in a speach implies that he is like-minded. [/quote] Since you touched it with your ten-foot pole, as it were, you have stated that Lieberman maintains Washington’s belief, ergo, Lieberman believes atheists are immoral. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by sdimbert_ > Honestly? I don’t think so. > > I read his statement to be saying that religion is not a taboo in politics despite what some hard-line Seperationist might believe. That’s a valid interpretation; however, I believe in complete separation of church and state, so I still find it offensive. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by sdimbert_ > Honestly? I don’t think so (again). > > Look, this is a county where schoolchildren recite, “One nation, under God…” isn’t it? Nobody clamors over the Seperation of Church and State on that one, do they? I sure as hell do. I got reprimanded for not pledging my allegiance. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by sdimbert_ > This time, it happens to be a Jewish one. BFD. I don’t care what his religious orientation is, I just don’t want it interfering with government. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by sdimbert_ > No, literally, it excludes them from the group of people for whom the Constitution was made. Whatever that means. And the Constitution was made for whom? > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by sdimbert_ > Look - The statement isn’t Leiberman’s, it’s Adams’. You got a problem with John Adams? You’re blaming the wrong person! Lieberman implied that he adhered to Adams’ beliefs in the same fashion as he did Washington’s. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by sdimbert_ > No. It implies that Lieberman wants more people to be able to feel comfortable with their religions. Lieberman mentioned nothing of comfort. I personally have no problem with people being comfortable with their respective religions; however, executive mandates regarding religions in a public forum are unnecessary and offensive. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by sdimbert_ > I don’t mean to be rude, but I think you’re taking an alarmist viewpoint here, reading too much into his statements. Again, nothing he said here is new. Regardless of whether or not it is “new”, it is unsettling. I am very critical of politicians. Their words bear heavily on the future of this society. Politicians should be capable of placing _precise_ meaning into their statements. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by sdimbert_ > Sarcastic much? Frequently, but how is that relevant to my statement? > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by sdimbert_ > Yes, it does. It illustrates that if one takes every statement at face value, ignoring those that are inconsistent with one’s thesis and ascribes an evil motivation to ideas that are as old as the US itself, one might take offense. I utilized all quotations availble from the referenced media. I ignored nothing; moreover, I ignored nothing inconsistent with my thesis. ---
**Author:** ![2nd\_Law](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/f475e1/32.png) [@2nd\_Law](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2nd_Law)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/37 "2000-08-28T17:49:29Z")
Yet another reason to vote Libertarian (and I’m not referring to the poster by that name). I just looked at their website and their position on religion is acceptable to me, and I’m an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/38 "2000-08-28T17:56:22Z")
::slapping self in head:: Ok, I get it. Forgive me, I’m a moron. I always get confused when two people argue the same side, since I rarely look carefully at who is posting, and you two don’t have distinctive enough “voices” that I can tell you apart without your SNs. I could use my Secret Moderator Powers to fix the name, but I can’t do that invisibly. Curses, I guess I’m left looking like a twit. > [@](#): > > First of all, just for clarity’s sake, you mentioned Christ, not Joseph Lieberman. Well, I’d hardly expect him to. 😉 You said you were used to religious politicians saying things like Lieberman, except denigrating your beliefs instead of mine. I then stated that it would be wrong for a person to imply that _either_ non-Christians or non-theists cannot be truly moral. I’m not sure why you are pointing out that Lieberman did not mention Christ, except to note that he is not excluding Jews from being capable of genuine morality–just atheists, agnostics, Buddhists… > [@](#): > > Look - Joe Lieberman doesn’t need my permission to say anything. I didn’t “allow” him to say what he said any more than I “allowed” the sun to rise this morning. No, of course not, but if someone was implying that you couldn’t be moral without worshipping Christ, I’d expect you to get a bit peeved. Since politicians have actual power over our lives, a belief that non-whatevers cannot be truly moral seems a dangerous belief for them to hold, and I feel we should point out to them that their voters do not all agree with them on that issue. It may make them less likely to do things to help make non-whatevers into whatevers, for the good of society of course, since non-whatevers can’t really be moral. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/39 "2000-08-28T18:03:29Z")
**Gaudere:** > [@](#): > > I always get confused when two people argue the same side Strangely enough, I’ve not actually posted any arguments to this thread. As I said, these Orthodox Jews are hard to tell apart… ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2000, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026/40 "2000-08-28T18:15:19Z")
Dammit, don’t argue with my attempt to look slightly less clueless! 😉 Ok, I guess I just must have been thinking of you since I was just reading your posts in GD and so I used the wrong name. This’ll teach me to pay better attention. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-can-kiss-my-godless-backside/31026.md?page=3)