# Joe Lieberman: Emperor of the Senate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2006, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555 "2006-11-08T14:58:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/81 "2006-11-10T18:31:28Z")
It does indeed appear [Lieberman intends to attend the Senate as a Democrat](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15653579/) and not “an Independent who caucases with the Democrats”. ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/82 "2006-11-10T21:41:46Z")
[QUOTE=John Corrado] That’s gotta be one of the best non-answers I’ve ever read, **Danalan**. You should run for something. [/QUOTE] I thought the part about Evil transcending pary affiliation answered the question, but I’ll make it simple for you: I think any politician would at least consider taking advantage of the situation. I won’t be surprised if Lieberman does. I think running for public office is not an option for me, mainly because of some posts I’ve made here. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/83 "2006-11-13T03:47:45Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] If the Democrats hold their leads in Montana and Virginia, that will give them a 51-49 lead and theoretical control of the Senate. Or so CNN tells me. But isn’t that overlooking Joe Lieberman? Sure, he _says_ he will _caucus_ with the Democrats. But will he vote with them? [/QUOTE] The great thing about Democrats over the last few decades is that they have a healthy tradition of breaking with their party. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/84 "2006-11-13T09:30:51Z")
Of course Lieberman’s going to caucaus with the Democrats, unless he wants this to be his last term in the senate. Connecticut doesn’t vote Republican too often, and if Joe betrayed them to become a Republican, they’d be even less likely to vote for him than Joe Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/85 "2006-11-13T17:10:19Z")
**Joe Lieberman** on [Meet the Press](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15637887/page/3/) yesterday: > [@](#): > > MR. RUSSERT: If in fact they ask for discipline in the Democratic caucus, and you start to feel uncomfortable with it, would you consider crossing across the—going across the aisle, and joining the Republicans, if they gave you the same chairmanship that you had, and respected your seniority? > > SEN. LIEBERMAN: Yeah. Well, that’s a hypothetical, which I’m, I’m not going to deal with here. I’m going to be an optimist, and take some encouragement from the fact that this was an election in which, in the House and Senate, Democrats came to the majority of both chambers by electing moderates mostly. > > * * * > > MR. RUSSERT: Jim Jeffords of Vermont crossed over and joined the Democrats. > > SEN. LIEBERMAN: Yeah. > > MR. RUSSERT: And they gave—they gave him his committee chairmanship. > > SEN. LIEBERMAN: Yeah. > > MR. RUSSERT: You’re, you’re not ruling that out at some future time? > > SEN. LIEBERMAN: I’m not ruling it out, but I hope I don’t get to that point. Looks like we’re going to have to keep an eye on Joe. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/86 "2006-11-13T17:16:27Z")
Only if the Dems don’t honor their agreement to let him keep his seniority. Now, why on earth would they do something as stupid as that? He has to say that he’s not ruling out switching until the committee asignments are finalized. Well, he doesn’t _have_ to say it, but it’s smart to do so in order to be sure he’s not taken for granted. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/87 "2006-11-13T17:17:08Z")
“Little Joe” is an attention whore of the first magnitude. He will milk this for all its worth, which is a lot. But he makes a very big deal out of his “integrity” and he swore up and down that he would stick with the Dems, so a switch would be very, very costly. Thing is, the bleeding isn’t over for the Pubbies, its just starting. They’ve managed to cover their tracks for years now, since they could control and short-circuit investigations into corruption and Iraq. You think Bush is unpopular now? Just wait. “Little Joe” might very well jump ship, but not to one that’s sinking. He’s had a whiff of the perfume Eau de Oval Office, and he’s hooked. Its all about positioning himself as a “centrist”, and independent thinker. He’s neither, of course, but since when did that matter? He’s like a guy who’s wrapped himself in dynamite and taken hostages: he can only pull the trigger once, and when he does, thats all she wrote. But he can threaten and bargain all he likes. And he will. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/88 "2006-11-13T17:25:07Z")
Ah, the demonization of Joe Lieberman. He defied the party, and so he must be shunned by the party faithful. He’s not an indpendent thinker-- only people who stick to the party line are independent thinkers. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/89 "2006-11-13T18:33:43Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] He has to say that he’s not ruling out switching until the committee asignments are finalized. Well, he doesn’t _have_ to say it, but it’s smart to do so in order to be sure he’s not taken for granted. [/QUOTE] He said at least twice - once early on, and once shortly before the election - that he would caucus with the Democrats. Guess his constituents are the ones who can’t take him for granted. It may be ‘smart’ for him to go against his word, but it’s still lying. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/90 "2006-11-13T18:46:57Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Ah, the demonization of Joe Lieberman. He defied the party, and so he must be shunned by the party faithful. He’s not an indpendent thinker-- only people who stick to the party line are independent thinkers. :dubious: [/QUOTE] You really think this is all just about rhetoric and symbolism? Years after everyone else with a brain has realized what a big freaking mistake Iraq was, Lieberman continued to give the Bush administration cover, not only by refusing to admit error, but to accuse his fellow Democrats of disloyalty to the country for criticizing the president. Since 2001, Lieberman has been systematically undermining the party. Sure, his overall voting record might be solidly liberal, but that’s only in matters in which his vote didn’t make a difference. If someone has done an analysis of Lieberman, I bet he’d find that when Lieberman’s vote was critical he used it in the Bush administration’s favor. And, for freak’s sake, he _ran against the party’s nominee_. That really shows you that to Lieberman, it’s Joe Lieberman that matters and not any of his sanctimonius lecturing about principle. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/91 "2006-11-13T19:15:19Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] He said at least twice - once early on, and once shortly before the election - that he would caucus with the Democrats. Guess his constituents are the ones who can’t take him for granted. It may be ‘smart’ for him to go against his word, but it’s still lying. [/QUOTE] I think that’s up to the CT to determine, not you or me. And he isn’t going “against his word” since he’s clearly going to caucus with the Dems. Now, if you don’t think he will, hows about we make a little wager on it? > [@acsenray](#): > > Sure, his overall voting record might be solidly liberal, but that’s only in matters in which his vote didn’t make a difference. If someone has done an analysis of Lieberman, I bet he’d find that when Lieberman’s vote was critical he used it in the Bush administration’s favor. I’ll be happy to do this analysis provided you’re serious about making the bet. Let’s make the stakes high since you’re so confident that you’re right. OK? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/92 "2006-11-13T19:23:16Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I’ll be happy to do this analysis provided you’re serious about making the bet. Let’s make the stakes high since you’re so confident that you’re right. OK? [/QUOTE] You mean you wouldn’t be satisfied just to prove me wrong? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/93 "2006-11-13T19:26:39Z")
Here’s what Salon had to say in July: > [@](#): > > Covering Lieberman is a good way to understand how misleading a voting record can be. (Are you listening, Courant editorial board?) Most members of Congress vote with their parties the preponderance of the time. There are other questions to ask. Did he vote differently on a much-more-important earlier amendment or cloture motion? Did he wait until it was clear his vote wouldn’t hurt the other side? Are his public pronouncements strangely different from his votes? > > Consider Lieberman’s behavior during the confirmation of Clarence Thomas 15 years ago, well documented in this article from the political newsletter Counterpunch. Lieberman spoke avidly on behalf of Thomas and disdainfully about Democratic colleagues whose opposition was, he thought, too political. He was pretty much the last senator to commit to a nay vote, and only when his vote didn’t matter. > > Lieberman wound up with no points against his license for Voting While Republican, even though he supported Thomas actively till the 11th hour. Interestingly, one of his arguments was that Thomas should be judged only on his actual decisions, not on his speeches or writings, a principle Lieberman would probably like to extend to himself these days. In areas such as affirmative action and school vouchers, Lieberman’s public statements have caused him more trouble among Democrats than any vote he has cast. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/94 "2006-11-13T19:34:56Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] You mean you wouldn’t be satisfied just to prove me wrong? 😛 [/QUOTE] I’d prefer to do both. 😉 Look, this meme about him only voting with the Dems when it doesn’t matter is utter nonsense. First, there are maybe a handful of times, if any, when only one vote matters in Congress. But if what you say is true, then surely Lieberman will choose to caucus with the Republicans, right? There is no other time that Bush needs his vote than right now. Lieberman can give control of the Senate back to Bush and the Republicans. Let’s simpligy things and just wager on this one upcoming event. Come on, you know you’re right!!! I don’t particularly like Lieberman, and don’t agree with him on much. But the idea that he’s a Republican stooge instead of a non-partisan thinker is ridiculous. Liberals hate JL for the same reason conservatives hate McCain-- they both refuse to toe the party line when it goes against their beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/95 "2006-11-13T19:40:31Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] But the idea that he’s a Republican stooge instead of a non-partisan thinker is ridiculous. [/QUOTE] Just for the record, I don’t believe Lieberman is a Republican stooge, if by “stooge,” you mean some kind of double-agent. I do believe he is arrogant, deluded, and egotistical and that his whole “I’m such a great bipartisan” shtik is just to get him attention. I used to believe that McCain was a principled maverick, or whatever, but his ass-kissing of the Christian right all the way through the 2004 elections proved me wrong there. He’s just looking out for No. 1. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/96 "2006-11-13T19:43:12Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] I do believe he is arrogant, deluded, and egotistical and that his whole “I’m such a great bipartisan” shtik is just to get him attention. [/QUOTE] I forgot “sanctimonious prick.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/97 "2006-11-13T19:45:35Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] Here’s what Salon had to say in July: [/QUOTE] Oh, so when you said he votes to support Bush, you meant GHW Bush! 🙂 Laughable. First of all, how does one go about determining who was the last one to commit to a no vote, and note the weasel wording: he wasn’t the last one to commint, he was “ **pretty much** the last senator” to commit (my empahsis). What the hell does that mean? And besides, there were 11 Democratic Senators who voted for Thomas. **Eleven!** What does that make them? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/98 "2006-11-13T19:56:43Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] I forgot “sanctimonious prick.” [/QUOTE] I won’t argue with you over that one. Like I said, I don’t much care for him, I just don’t understand why it’s necessary to make stuff up about him in order to demonize him. He’s a Democrat, he almost always votes with the Democrats, he does try to work in a bipartisan manner, he is a centrist\*, and he is very well liked in his home state. \*You can’t just look at one issue, like the Iraq war, and declare that a person isn’t a centrist because of his position on that issue. If you look at his overall voting record, and the fact that he appeals to both Democrats and Republicans, I don’t see how he can’t be called a centrist. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/99 "2006-11-13T20:00:36Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] But if what you say is true, then surely Lieberman will choose to caucus with the Republicans, right? There is no other time that Bush needs his vote than right now. Lieberman can give control of the Senate back to Bush and the Republicans. Let’s simpligy things and just wager on this one upcoming event. Come on, you know you’re right!!! . [/QUOTE] I have to agree with **John** here. Control of the Senate is critical. If Joe _is_ a “closet Repub” then he’ll caucus with the GoP. :dubious: But I am willing to bet along with John here that he won’t. Vote tracking is all very nice and all, but who gets to appoint the chair of various commitees is even more critical. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555/100 "2006-11-13T20:07:23Z")
Suppose the Senate is split 50-50: who gets to head the committees? Can Sanders and Lieberman command special powers? After all, they could opt out and keep the senate split. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-emperor-of-the-senate/379555.md?page=6)