# Joe Lieberman Is Still A Dumb Fuck (today's WaPo Op-Ed)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [December 29, 2006, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985 "2006-12-29T14:40:19Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/1 "2006-12-29T14:40:19Z")
Reading [Lieberman’s op-ed](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/28/AR2006122801055.html) in this morning’s Washington Post quickly became a game of ‘how many disproven canards can I find in this piece?’ Let’s count 'em.
1. \*All the Muslim extremists are on the same side. \* Joe gets into that one in the very first paragraph:
> [@](#):
>
> On one side are extremists and terrorists led and sponsored by Iran, on the other moderates and democrats supported by the United States. Iraq is the most deadly battlefield on which that conflict is being fought. How we end the struggle there will affect not only the region but the worldwide war against the extremists who attacked us on Sept. 11, 2001.
We were attacked on 9/11 by al-Qaeda, a Sunni organization. Iran is Shi’ite, and they aren’t leading or sponsoring Sunni terrorists or extremists.
1. _“the war is winnable.”_ Sure, Joe: on what basis do you say that?
Here’s his basis: “the recent coming together of moderate political forces in Baghdad” (Who?? Hakim isn’t a moderate, even by comparison with a thug like al-Sadr!) and:
1. _The notion that we can improve security in Baghdad by military means_, and
2. _that would tip things our way in Iraq._
This is freakin’ _crazy_. We’ve already been upping the ante in Baghdad for the past six or seven months, and by all accounts, _things have gotten worse_. But a few more troops will surely put us over the top. Only a fool would believe this. This is Joe Lieberman speaking. But I repeat myself.
And of course, security in Baghdad _was_ much better a year or two ago than it is now. Lot of good it did us then. The overall situation is much, much worse than it was a year ago. Even if we improve security in Baghdad to where it was this time last year, Iraq as a whole is still much worse than a year ago, and we couldn’t win then.
1. _Al-Qaeda (allied with Iran!) is behind the violence:_
> [@](#):
>
> a conscious strategy by al-Qaeda and Iran, which have systematically aimed to undermine Iraq’s fragile political center. By ruthlessly attacking the Shiites in particular over the past three years, al-Qaeda has sought to provoke precisely the dynamic of reciprocal violence that threatens to consume the country.
1. _“Iraq is the central front in the global and regional war against Islamic extremism.”_
Yeah, he really said that. Shee-yut, how dumb can a guy be? This is why people like me supported Ned Lamont: we figured that a guy with a brain would be a huge improvement over Joe.
Anyone paying attention realizes that the conflict in Iraq is between Sunni and Shi’ite Arabs, between competing Shi’ite factions (principally the Sadrists and Hakim’s outfit, the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq, or SCIRI), and between Kurds and Sunni Arabs. Al-Qaeda’s involvement is incidental (as evidenced by the infinitesimal effect of Zarqawi’s death this past summer) and if we leave Iraq, everybody there is going to be too busy fighting each other, just like they are now, to follow us home.
1. _Training more Iraqi troops will help._
Which ones, the Sadrist troops or the Badr Corps (SCIRI) troops? What evidence is there that we’re capable of identifying any troops to train that aren’t allied with one faction or another? All we’re doing is arming and training various sides in Iraq’s kaleidoscopic civil war.
1. _Our troops believe we can win this if we just get more troops._ Joe knows this because he even talked to _colonels_ as well as generals.
Excuse me, Joe, but what do most colonels want to be? Sheesh. Did you talk to any noncoms? The grunts might’ve had a different message.
1. _There is a substantial and growing alliance of moderates in Iraq._ (He won’t say who they are, of course.)
> [@](#):
>
> I saw firsthand evidence in Iraq of the development of a multiethnic, moderate coalition against the extremists of al-Qaeda and against the Mahdi Army, which is sponsored and armed by Iran and has inflamed the sectarian violence.
Simple question, Joe: is SCIRI (the Iraqi party with the strongest ties to Iran, much more so than the Sadrists) supposedly part of this coalition? If not, then the two largest Shi’ite factions aren’t playing, and exactly who’s left on that side? If so, you’re fooling yourself, and Hakim is playing _you_.
1. _We’re making progress in winning over Sunni tribal leaders in Anbar._
How many times have we heard this one during the war? It’s less likely now than ever.
I give up. Gawd, what a tool.
I’d say I can’t believe the WaPo gave over a big chunk of its op-ed page to print this tripe - except that, lately, it’s become all too easy to believe it.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/2 "2006-12-29T15:19:13Z")
Take heart. Lieberman might be victorious, but he’s still [irrelevant.](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070108/melber)
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### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/3 "2006-12-29T15:37:52Z")
What a goofball. Any political party that would nominate HIM to a national ticket would have to have collective rocks in their heads, eh?
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### Author:  [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/4 "2006-12-29T15:40:51Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker]
What a goofball. Any political party that would nominate HIM to a national ticket would have to have collective rocks in their heads, eh?
[/QUOTE]
As opposed to a party which gave us the Commander in Chimp and his puppetmaster, Darth Cheney?
:rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/5 "2006-12-29T15:43:49Z")
I think that Lieberman’s entire support for the war in Iraq comes from his desire to protect the state of Israel.
He’s disingenuous not to bring it up.
---
### Author:  [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/6 "2006-12-29T15:46:14Z")
FTR, I consider Lieberman a DINO and I abhor his support of the Iraq war and his pro-censorship stance.
But I would still rather see him as VP than the Deadeye Dick.
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### Author:  [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/7 "2006-12-29T15:48:35Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk]
I think that Lieberman’s entire support for the war in Iraq comes from his desire to protect the state of Israel.
He’s disingenuous not to bring it up.
[/QUOTE]
Really? What makes you say that.
---
### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/8 "2006-12-29T15:53:10Z")
[QUOTE=Dr. Rieux]
FTR, I consider Lieberman a DINO and I abhor his support of the Iraq war and his pro-censorship stance.
But I would still rather see him as VP than the Deadeye Dick.
[/QUOTE]
I see it’s necessary to explain my point in a bit more detail.
Why was Liberman the only Democrat available to be the VP candidiate, so that you were faced with the choice of Dick Cheney and Joe Lieberman? That seems like a real piece of bad luck to me.
---
### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/9 "2006-12-29T15:55:04Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk]
I think that Lieberman’s entire support for the war in Iraq comes from his desire to protect the state of Israel.
He’s disingenuous not to bring it up.
[/QUOTE]
At least then we could have a decent debate on whether our Iraq misadventure has actually advanced that goal. If it’s made Israel any safer, I’d be hard pressed to see how.
---
### Author:  [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/10 "2006-12-29T15:58:06Z")
Killed Arabs. That’s how they think.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/11 "2006-12-29T15:58:29Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker]
I see it’s necessary to explain my point in a bit more detail.
Why was Liberman the only Democrat available to be the VP candidiate?
[/QUOTE]
He wasn’t. :rolleyes:
You’re not normally \*this \* obtuse. Been a rough last couple of months for you , has it?
---
### Author:  [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/12 "2006-12-29T16:16:06Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol]
Really? What makes you say that.
[/QUOTE]
If this whole mess was over some other nation, e.g. North Korea, do you think you see pictures of Lieberman kissing Bush over his war?
It’s not like he’s ever been secretive about it. His 2002 Senate Resolution 247 basically ties it together.
Don’t think I’m being anti-Zionist here. I don’t blame him any more than I blame any other politician for doing something for the people they get money from.
I just think he should be forthcoming about it. But, that’s like saying Bon Ney should be more forthcoming about his golf trip with Jack Abramoff.
---
### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/13 "2006-12-29T16:17:06Z")
Blogger [Matt Yglesias](http://www.matthewyglesias.com/archives/2006/12/the_last_honest_escalation/) on Lieberman’s op-ed:
> [@](#):
>
> One problem here is that to the extent you see the dark hand of Iran behind all events in Iraq, the situation should logically be viewed as _more_ rather than less hopeless. The reason, of course, is that Iran can escalate every bit as much as we can. Whoever’s equipping, say, the Mahdi Army clearly isn’t equipping them very _well_ – Hezbollah is much better-armed. Suppose we escalate and the Iranians counter-escalate by giving our foes wire-guided anti-tank missiles, katyusha rockets, Iglas and so forth – then you’re talking about a _really_ bad scene.
---
### Author:  [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/14 "2006-12-29T16:31:56Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker]
I see it’s necessary to explain my point in a bit more detail.
Why was Liberman the only Democrat available to be the VP candidiate, so that you were faced with the choice of Dick Cheney and Joe Lieberman? That seems like a real piece of bad luck to me.
[/QUOTE]
Why was the only Rep candidate Captainn Decider and his handler(s)? What a silly question? This isn’t about the Democratic party, **Bricker** -it’s about Joe-mentom Lieberman. The real piece of bad luck to me is that W won and brought the Joker with him. YMMV.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/15 "2006-12-29T16:34:17Z")
[QUOTE=Trunk]
I think that Lieberman’s entire support for the war in Iraq comes from his desire to protect the state of Israel.
[/QUOTE]
That, plus the fact he hasn’t stopped pissing his pants since 9/11. Anyone that scared of terrorists isn’t the one I would respect regarding US policy in the Middle East.
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### Author:  [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/16 "2006-12-29T16:41:22Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol]
Killed Arabs. That’s how they think.
[/QUOTE]
Are you seriously implying that Jews, in general, just want to see Arabs dead, even if this means continuing war in Iraq?
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### Author:  [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/17 "2006-12-29T17:00:09Z")
I still have, I think, a clipping from the NY Times from the 2000 election season on my corkboard. It was an article describing how (IIRC) the ADL and others were encouraging ol’ Joe to kinda ease up on hawking his religious views; it was becoming unseemly. He was out-Godding the religious right.
Honestly, to be aware of Joe is to dislike him. But at least he’s got \ “Joe-mentum,” \, right?
---
### Author:  [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/18 "2006-12-29T17:13:01Z")
[QUOTE=Helen’s Eidolon]
Are you seriously implying that Jews, in general, just want to see Arabs dead, even if this means continuing war in Iraq?
[/QUOTE]
I think he is characterizing another poster’s argument as boiling down to that.
---
### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/19 "2006-12-29T17:24:42Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker]
What a goofball. Any political party that would nominate HIM to a national ticket would have to have collective rocks in their heads, eh?
[/QUOTE]
Hopefully that political party has since learned that they can win national elections by not pandering to the crazy conservatives, “balancing” the ticket of a smart progressive with someone that all the crazy conservatives declare palatable.
Hopefully, the opposition to that political party has become sufficiently insignificant by showing their true colors over the 6 years since that they don’t need to make the same mistake again.
---
### Author:  [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-lieberman-is-still-a-dumb-fuck-todays-wapo-op-ed/385985/20 "2006-12-29T17:43:42Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian]
Hopefully that political party has since learned that they can win national elections by not pandering to the crazy conservatives, “balancing” the ticket of a smart progressive with someone that all the crazy conservatives declare palatable.
[/QUOTE]
That, and they learned that they can’t expect the crazy conservatives to ever vote for a Jew. How long did it take this country to vote in a “Romish Papist”? And even _he_ wasn’t a Republican.
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