# Joe Millionaire: Outright Fraud? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 13, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314 "2003-01-13T16:28:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/1 "2003-01-13T16:28:09Z")
I think that the concept is brilliant. Find a total dope and tell women that he’s worth $50 million. Watch how the $$$s make the women think that he’s charming, suave, gorgeous and graceful. Have advertisers pay you a load of money because they all know that people love to watch other people being made fools of. But isn’t it really just outright fraud? Just because it’s being filmed doesn’t mean that Fox has any right to willfully defraud these women. I would assume that any contract that they originally signed would become null and void once the fraud is revealed to them. I would think that the only way that Fox could broadcast the show is by having them sign something afterwards. All 20 of them. Am I correct here? If so, then I’m pretty sure that each of them walked away with quite a nice check in their hands. What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/2 "2003-01-13T16:34:35Z")
And precisely what were they defrauded out of? Did they give this man money? Did they pay Fox? Did they spend money in reliance on some promise made by Fox? No. No doubt, the contract they signed informed them that elements of the show’s set-up may be concealed from them by means of deceit, and they may be embarrassed by some facts revealed during the show. Their performance on the show is the property of Fox, and they have no right to complain. ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/3 "2003-01-13T16:51:10Z")
Yeah, it’s outright fraud. Fox is betting that these shameless media whores won’t call them on it, though. Actually, i expect that there was legalise in the media whores’ contracts which probably stated that “joe millionairre” might not actually be a millionairre. I’m betting that the media whores don’t really care, as long as they get to be on tv. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/4 "2003-01-13T16:57:58Z")
zuma, I’m with Nametag on this one. What exactly are the women being defrauded of? Why is the assumption made that FOX had to tell these women every aspect of the show? ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/5 "2003-01-13T16:59:42Z")
I would have to see their contract first. I bet it has some catchy legal phrases to protect Fox. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/6 "2003-01-13T17:00:23Z")
Nametag: I’m not a lawyer. But I didn’t think that money necessarily needed to be involved in order for fraud to have taken place. In your second paragraph, you’re basically saying that if you tell someone that you may deceive them, and then you do deceive them, it’s OK legally. If that’s the case, then I guess there is no fraud. I wonder how many of the women actually read the contract that they signed. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/7 "2003-01-13T17:00:59Z")
I think Fox’s lawyers have this covered. Don’t assume that what we see as a bunch of women being fooled is neccessarily the truth. “Reality” shows that end in humiliation are common enougn now that I’d be suprised if all those appearing in it were not in on the secret. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/8 "2003-01-13T17:03:16Z")
Is it fraud? Sure, but who’s the “victim”? Virtually EVERYONE who appears on “Joe Millionaire” (including that “construction worker”) is an actor/actress or model who thinks the exposure will be good for his/her show biz career. Sure, the network is using the contestants, but they’re using the networks as well. If ANY of the contestants REALLY thought this was about true love, maybe I could work up some sympathy for the way they were deceived. But come on, do you think ANY of those women was hoping for anything more than some time on national TV (followed, hopefully, by some better paying acting or modelling gigs)? ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/9 "2003-01-13T17:25:47Z")
Apparently their original contract made no mention of the guy being a millionaire, just that they were going to be on a “sex in the city type” reality dating show. They didn’t know the guy was supposed to be a millionaire until they were driving up to “his” mansion. They were already under contract when the misrepresentation took place. No reliance, no damages, no fraud. Sneaky and deceptive, maybe, but not fraudulent. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/10 "2003-01-13T17:26:49Z")
There was a thread on this before. One of the key things was that when the women signed up to be on the show, they weren’t told he was a multi-millionaire. They didn’t say anything about him until after the women agreed to be on the show. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/11 "2003-01-14T01:42:22Z")
“There was a thread on this before.” Yeah, but it’s in Cafe Society, one like it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![SandWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8491ac/32.png) [@SandWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/12 "2003-01-14T01:55:45Z")
I have to go with Padeye on this one. You could even site Jerry Srpinger as precedent. On Jerry, people appear on the show thinking they are going to get a makeover or meet someone from their past or something inocuous. Then when they come on the show, their spouse let’s it out that they are paid for sex in the evening or that they want a divorce to marry the ex-spouse’s sibling or co-worker! That’s my .02 cents. -Sandwriter \<----expecting thread to be moved to IMHO or GD any second now. ---
**Author:** ![SandWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8491ac/32.png) [@SandWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/13 "2003-01-14T01:58:33Z")
Hey, I just had a new thought. They are really only de-frauding one women, er, media whore, as those that didn’t make it to the proposal knew that there would be only one ‘winner’ ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/14 "2003-01-14T02:52:43Z")
I have already posted this a couple of times but here goes. I have some inside scoop on this show. One of the ladies is a friend of a good friend of mine and my wife’s. My wife has actually met her a couple of times. After she got back from Europe she sent a brief email to her entire address book. She said that they were totally hoodwinked. They were originally told that they would be on a “Sex in the City type reality show to see if 20 young, educated, professional women could find love in Europe.” They didn’t know it was a contest, let alone a marry a millionaire show. No fraud here. I will not reveal which one she is but she is, like I suspect most of them are, an aspiring actress who did it for a lark and the publicity. Obviously they are all listed by their day job and not the want to be an actress part. She is very embarrassed but is being a good sport about it. Haj ---
**Author:** ![brianjedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/15 "2003-01-14T05:55:05Z")
Interesting side note on “Joe”: he’s a former pro wrestler. Trained with Ultimate Pro Wrestling in California, according to [UPW.com](http://www.upw.com). ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/16 "2003-01-14T14:58:21Z")
> [@](#): > > [New York Daily News](http://www.nydailynews.com/01-12-2003/front/story/50826p-47591c.html) > Marriott’s father is a banker, he was raised in a gated community, attended a pricey private school and vacationed in Europe. > > Barely out of his teens, he was signed by a top modeling agency in New York and worked with a famed fashion photographer, living in a W. 68th St. pad with other models. > > And while he does drive a bulldozer — he was even back at work on Friday — he set his sights on showbiz, trying to break into wrestling and acting. > > The home where Marriott grew up isn’t some swamp shack, but a handsome two-story Colonial on a half-acre lot at Great Neck Farms, an upper-middle class area of Virginia Beach. > > His father, Robert, is a senior vice president at Old Dominion Trust and his mother, Charlotte, has a job at the fanciest linen shop in town, Yves Delorme. > > Marriott went to local public schools until seventh grade, when he was packed off to Hargrave Military Academy, a $12,000-a-year boarding school for rambunctious teens." ---
**Author:** ![NYR407](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@NYR407](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NYR407)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/17 "2003-01-14T15:35:22Z")
I know that Joe is lying to the woman about being a millionaire but is he really looking for “luv”? Or is his only motive to make the woman look like money hungry tramps? He probably has aspirations to make money through the exposure but was his main purpose to do the show to find Miss Right? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/18 "2003-01-14T16:35:37Z")
“I know that Joe is lying to the woman about being a millionaire” Has he ever outright said on the show that he has that much money to any of the women? ---
**Author:** ![malaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@malaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malaka)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/19 "2003-01-14T16:40:10Z")
Wasn’t there a story recently about some guy that lied to a woman to get her into bed and the judge ruled it rape because he decieved her? Or something like that. So, if Joe sleeps with any of these women, couldn’t this be a similar case? ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-millionaire-outright-fraud/148314/20 "2003-01-14T22:30:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by malaka \* > \*\*Wasn’t there a story recently about some guy that lied to a woman to get her into bed and the judge ruled it rape because he decieved her? \*\* Not to hijack, but did that really happen? If so, that woman should have immediately been charged with prostitution. (IMHO)