# Joe Paterno very ill - may be dying soon \[Update: RIP Joe Paterno\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 22, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259 "2012-01-22T00:21:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/61 "2012-01-24T16:05:26Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > I wasn’t talking about the scandal. I was referring to his record as coach. Not bad, but not great. His record can be attributed as much to sheer longevity as much as his skill. You don’t get that kind of longevity by being mediocre. In any case, he won 75 percent of his games over 46 years, and that doesn’t seem mediocre to me. ---
**Author:** ![SeamusMcCool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SeamusMcCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeamusMcCool)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/62 "2012-01-24T16:06:44Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > Not to mention that by not going to the cops, you stand zero chance of stopping the actions so these predators can continue what they are doing. > > I’m sorry for what your wife went through, but your post is ignorant. No, you’re ignorant as my post is nothing but facts. Nor am I advocating that not calling the cops was the right thing, which is probably what you think, but if you read more carefully you’d understand my point. That is, you people are on your high horses waving your fingers when 1) it’s the norm to cover up sex abuse, that is a sad FACT and b) you are giving way too much credit to the police. Chances are, if Paterno went to the police, a detective would have been assigned. Sandusky would have denied everything like he’s doing now, the administration would have had a talk with the detective and they would have been part of the cover up. So, while yes, it would have been ideal for Paterno to go to the cops, chances are we’d still be where we are today wondering why, 10 years after Sandusky was witnessed raping a boy, it took so long for the abuse to come to light. ---
**Author:** ![Chicagojeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@Chicagojeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicagojeff)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/63 "2012-01-24T16:09:14Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > AFAICT, he wasn’t even that good a coach. He just managed to build up a two-bit program into a larger one, but I don’t think there’s anything special about him aside from a cult of personality that could probably rival Chairman Mao’s. > > You and me both. Geezus.. overreaction from both sides much?? Nuances anyone.. BTW he was a helluva football coach.. numerous all americans.. numerous pro football players.. one of the only guys to make sure black athletes graduated with REAL majors/degrees.. Paterno also helped increase the academic assistants and standards for incoming athletes.. hence. one of the few repubs i liked. Did he turn a blind eye to Sandusky? Yeah.. Could you make an excuse that a man of his time/era didn’t understand what Sandusky was allegedly involved in.. yeah.. but its no more comforting to the victims.. SHould the flag be half mast.. yeah it should.. Not the same.. but when Woody went out slugging that Clemson linebacker.. that shouldn’t overlook the years and years of good things a person does.. The last line in a wikipedia article shouldn’t comprise the whole story.. ---
**Author:** ![Chicagojeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@Chicagojeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicagojeff)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/64 "2012-01-24T16:17:30Z")
> [@SeamusMcCool](#): > > That’s great that the cops are into it 100% when there’s 100% indisputable video evidence. > > Although, there’s a big difference between a cop and the detectives charged with investigating the case. Especially when there’s no video evidence. My wife and her peers regularly go to court with victims of sexual assault (not just children) and not only do the victims typicaly get grief from the interviewing officer, sometimes the advocates are tricked and locked into other rooms so that the officer can get the victim alone. They do this so that they can try and intimidate the victim because many of these investigators treat them as liars first when it’s one person’s word against another. > > The kind of stuff detailed in this link is pretty common. > > [http://www.9news.com/news/article/244443/222/Whos-policing-the-police-Unsolved-cases-of-rape-incest-and-burglary-](http://www.9news.com/news/article/244443/222/Whos-policing-the-police-Unsolved-cases-of-rape-incest-and-burglary-) Are you shitting me?? Seriously.. one crap ass detective in some shit town in Colorado causes you to “surmise” that this is what happens in all police depts all over? REally.. Really.. i had a bad whopper once in Oberlin.. same? I just worked a molestation case last week.. the amount of detail we go through.. the cautious interviewing of the victim.. tracing the steps.. talking to the offender.. just to write a detailed report to FORWARD to the detectives.. Maybe you should move. because even here in Metro Atlanta.. any youth/sex detective will tell you..fucking up one of these cases is a career ending move. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/65 "2012-01-24T16:18:45Z")
> [@SeamusMcCool](#): > > Chances are, if Paterno went to the police, a detective would have been assigned. Sandusky would have denied everything like he’s doing now, the administration would have had a talk with the detective and they would have been part of the cover up. So, while yes, it would have been ideal for Paterno to go to the cops, chances are we’d still be where we are today wondering why, 10 years after Sandusky was witnessed raping a boy, it took so long for the abuse to come to light. There are a lot of things that could have happened, and the point is that we don’t know because nobody made the effort. If someone had gone to the cops 10 years ago, it’s also very possible the abuse would have been stopped. It’s a college town and the football program is prominent, but we’re also talking about child abuse here: if someone had reported this, Sandusky would have denied it but other Second Mile children, parents and volunteers and officials would have been interviewed and there would have been opportunities for this to come to light. If any of these people had shown some basic interest in making sure the child abuse stopped, things could have been different. ---
**Author:** ![SeamusMcCool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SeamusMcCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeamusMcCool)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/66 "2012-01-24T16:20:46Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > I’d also like to see some cites as to **Seamus McCool’s** little “90%” thing … This took me 30 seconds to find. There are many other studies out there. > [@](#): > > Less than 10 percent of sex abuse is reported to the police. > **[Home - Advocates for Youth](https://www.advocatesforyouth.org/?option=com_content&task=view&id=410&Itemid=336)** > > Advocates for Youth empowers young leaders to drive social change, promoting sexual health, rights, and justice. Join our youth advocates in creating a better future. The facts are depressing. Sexual abuse is an irrational act which typicaly causes people to act irrationaly. I don’t know why, I just know they do. And knowing what I know, I feel awful for the victims, but it isn’t as black and white as wishing Paterno a special place in hell for not doing enough. Regarding the boy in the shower. Has he come forward, btw? He’d be 19-21 right now. Did anybody think of what he might feel about all this? I know quite a few victims came forward, but that would be really shitty if the boy who got (allegedly) sodomized in the shower had his experience splashed across national news without his permission. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/67 "2012-01-24T16:37:53Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > I wasn’t talking about the scandal. I was referring to his record as coach. Not bad, but not great. His record can be attributed as much to sheer longevity as much as his skill. “Not bad”??? Again, you’re being ridiculous. Paterno had a GREAT record (it would have been better yet, if he’d retired when he should have). He won two national championships and had several undefeated seasons i nwhich his team could/should have been voted national champions. You have every right to hate Paterno, and plenty of valid reasons. But to deny he was one of the greatest college football coaches of all time is like denying thta OJ Simpson was one of the greatest running backs of all time. OJ belongs in the Pro Football Hall of Fame AND in prison. Joe Paterno was an all-time great coach AND a man who did little or nothing to prevent some horrible crimes. P.S. I’d love to know who you think WAS a great college football coach, if Paterno wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![SeamusMcCool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SeamusMcCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeamusMcCool)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/68 "2012-01-24T16:44:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There are a lot of things that could have happened, and the point is that we don’t know because nobody made the effort. If someone had gone to the cops 10 years ago, it’s also very possible the abuse would have been stopped. It’s a college town and the football program is prominent, but we’re also talking about child abuse here: if someone had reported this, Sandusky would have denied it but other Second Mile children, parents and volunteers and officials would have been interviewed and there would have been opportunities for this to come to light. If any of these people had shown some basic interest in making sure the child abuse stopped, things could have been different. Maybe, maybe it wasn’t going to happen either until last year. This is the way it was going to play out. At least he’s been outed and will go to court. Most sexual abusers go to their grave and never spend a minute talking to the police let alone a day in court. I’m not disputing Jo Pa could have done more, everybody could have done more, Jo Pa admitted he could have done more, but I find it disgusting to wag a righteous finger at Jo Pa after he just died knowing what I know about this case and child sex abuse in general. The media I’ve read has not lionized the man, the context of the scandal late in his career are included with his accomplishments. There’s no need to be so vindictive towards the man. He’s not the abuser and did what he thought was best, given what he knew, at the time. More than what most people would have done. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/69 "2012-01-24T16:54:46Z")
> [@SeamusMcCool](#): > > I’m not disputing Jo Pa could have done more, everybody could have done more, Jo Pa admitted he could have done more, but I find it disgusting to wag a righteous finger at Jo Pa after he just died knowing what I know about this case and child sex abuse in general. So basically you agree with what everyone else is saying, but think it’s “righteous finger-wagging” to say it? Thanks for sharing. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/70 "2012-01-24T17:19:11Z")
> [@SeamusMcCool](#): > > Maybe, maybe it wasn’t going to happen either until last year. This is the way it was going to play out. Here’s what really happened: the reason Sandusky was finally indicted and arrested is that one mother went to the police instead of the Penn State authorities (after a school principal talked to her, I think). That’s what got the grand jury investigation underway. If someone had gone to the police earlier, perhaps someone would have spoken up earlier. I don’t know “the way it was going to play out” and neither do you. > [@](#): > > but I find it disgusting to wag a righteous finger at Jo Pa after he just died knowing what I know about this case and child sex abuse in general. They were wagging their fingers at him before he died, and for the most part, rightly so. It’s not people just started criticizing him because he died. > [@](#): > > He’s not the abuser and did what he thought was best, given what he knew, at the time. We don’t know that he did what he thought was best. We know he did all he thought to do. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/71 "2012-01-24T17:29:22Z")
> [@SeamusMcCool](#): > > This took me 30 seconds to find. There are many other studies out there. > > [Home - Advocates for Youth](http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=410&Itemid=336) That doesn’t say what you think it says. The 90% that is not reported is _not_ just a result of “good men doing nothing”. Any case where nobody else _knew_ about the abuse? That’s part of that 90%. So unless you’re telling people off for not being psychic, your argument is misfounded. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/72 "2012-01-24T19:01:25Z")
> [@Chicagojeff](#): > > Geezus.. overreaction from both sides much?? Nuances anyone.. BTW he was a helluva football coach.. numerous all americans.. numerous pro football players.. one of the only guys to make sure black athletes graduated with REAL majors/degrees.. Paterno also helped increase the academic assistants and standards for incoming athletes.. hence. one of the few repubs i liked. > > Did he turn a blind eye to Sandusky? Yeah.. Could you make an excuse that a man of his time/era didn’t understand what Sandusky was allegedly involved in.. yeah.. but its no more comforting to the victims.. > SHould the flag be half mast.. yeah it should.. Not the same.. but when Woody went out slugging that Clemson linebacker.. that shouldn’t overlook the years and years of good things a person does.. The last line in a wikipedia article shouldn’t comprise the whole story.. One more time. I wasn’t talking about Paterno’s role in the Sandusky scandal in that post, although I do believe that he was a moral no-show there. I will grant that he was a good coach. But there are others, such as John McKay and John Robinson of USC, and Bear Bryant of Alabama, who were just as good at their jobs as Paterno was at his. But none of these men coached as long. The longer you coach, the more games you’re going to win, period. And I’m still not buying into his saintly reputation, either. His self-effacing attitude came across as narcissistic attention whoring to me. I believe that he was a genius at managing his image; you don’t last that long at a university if you can’t do that. I also believe that the cult of personality that rose around him made it far easier to do that than it might have been had he been under more scrutiny. Sunshine, as they say, is the best disinfectant, and had more people been watching him and his program, and questioning how he ran his program, I am firmly convinced that the Sandusky scandal wouldn’t have happened at Penn State. That’s not the last line of a Wikipedia article, it’s a problem that’s been going on for quite a while. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/73 "2012-01-24T21:26:41Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > The two aren’t mutually exclusive, you know. You can be superb at your job and STILL fall short as a human being. It’s strange to me how difficult this is for a lot of people to grasp, not just with Paterno but in general. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/74 "2012-01-24T21:58:38Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > One more time. I wasn’t talking about Paterno’s role in the Sandusky scandal in that post, although I do believe that he was a moral no-show there. > > I will grant that he was a good coach. But there are others, such as John McKay and John Robinson of USC, and Bear Bryant of Alabama, who were just as good at their jobs as Paterno was at his. But none of these men coached as long. The longer you coach, the more games you’re going to win, period. > > And I’m still not buying into his saintly reputation, either. His self-effacing attitude came across as narcissistic attention whoring to me. I believe that he was a genius at managing his image; you don’t last that long at a university if you can’t do that. I also believe that the cult of personality that rose around him made it far easier to do that than it might have been had he been under more scrutiny. Sunshine, as they say, is the best disinfectant, and had more people been watching him and his program, and questioning how he ran his program, I am firmly convinced that the Sandusky scandal wouldn’t have happened at Penn State. That’s not the last line of a Wikipedia article, it’s a problem that’s been going on for quite a while. Ahhh… now it all makes sense. You ALWAYS hated the guy, ALWAYS thought he was a phony, and you’re enjoying seeing him get the comeuppance you always suspected he deserved. Well, congratulations- you were right. He WASN’T as saintly as he appeared. He’s still one of the 3 or 4 best college football coaches of all time. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/75 "2012-01-24T23:32:33Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > That doesn’t say what you think it says. The 90% that is not reported is _not_ just a result of “good men doing nothing”. Any case where nobody else _knew_ about the abuse? That’s part of that 90%. So unless you’re telling people off for not being psychic, your argument is misfounded. +1 ---
**Author:** ![SeamusMcCool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SeamusMcCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeamusMcCool)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/76 "2012-01-25T01:03:37Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > So basically you agree with what everyone else is saying, but think it’s “righteous finger-wagging” to say it? > > Thanks for sharing. Yah, cause everybody is saying it with the same level of malice. Try and up your reading comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![SeamusMcCool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SeamusMcCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeamusMcCool)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/77 "2012-01-25T01:09:17Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > That doesn’t say what you think it says. The 90% that is not reported is _not_ just a result of “good men doing nothing”. Any case where nobody else _knew_ about the abuse? That’s part of that 90%. So unless you’re telling people off for not being psychic, your argument is misfounded. It is exactly what it states. That more than 90% of people who are aware of abuse don’t report it. Anybody who knows anything about the subject knows it is the norm to cover it up. I could easily fill this page with links backing up my point. Doesn’t make it right, but I know enough to know that nobody has the high moral ground on this subject. None of us can know for sure what we’d do unitl we’re faced with the same situation. We can say more could have been done, but to say it with malice and to let it tarnish his whole career is beyond anybody’s moral compass to do so. He wasn’t an active participant in some kind of community sex ring, no need to act like he was or that we are mind readers who knew exactly what his motivations were or what he did or did not know. What until the case goes to trial and all the facts are out in the open before passing final judgement on Jo Pa. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/78 "2012-01-25T01:23:29Z")
All this dancing on JoePa’s grave strikes me as horrible and deeply wrong. He did a lot of great things in his life. He made at least one terrible mistake. In any case, he’s dead now, and all your hate and anger can only hurt those he left behind. RIP, Coach Paterno. I’ll remember you fondly for all the great college football memories, even if every other soul on the face of the planet spits on your grave. Fuck 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/79 "2012-01-25T01:35:29Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > All this dancing on JoePa’s grave strikes me as horrible and deeply wrong. He did a lot of great things in his life. He made at least one terrible mistake. In any case, he’s dead now, and all your hate and anger can only hurt those he left behind. > > RIP, Coach Paterno. I’ll remember you fondly for all the great college football memories, even if every other soul on the face of the planet spits on your grave. Fuck 'em. Can you come down from Mt. Righteous for a moment so that you can hear me say that I take no joy in his death (or, in your colorful metaphor, I am not dancing on his grave). His death doesn’t mean we have to stop criticizing his horrible decision and worship him unconditionally. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259/80 "2012-01-25T01:39:00Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > Having read the reactions of Penn Staters online I think they’re little more than a cult. The man was a fucking FOOTBALL COACH. That’s all. Yes, he was apparently a damn good one. Big fucking deal. It’s just sports. To play the devil’s advocate, I was thinking of how the PSU fans are reacting, and realized the same thing would likely play out in with other big-time programs’ fans. When I was in college, there was a highly publicized incident where a girl assaulted a player’s fists with her face. How did the fans react? They blamed the media for blowing it out of proportion. “It happens at other schools, where are the news vans?”… “They’re only doing this because we’re #1”… “East-Coast media bias can’t stand our success”, etc. The player took some anger management courses and was welcomed back with a standing ovation. So, then I thought of a similarly legendary coach, like Osborne, Switzer, or Bear Bryant. [ul] [li]A former assistant did some terrible things 10 years ago.[/li][li]That former assistant hasn’t been a coach 10 years since.[/li][li]The head coach did what he was ‘supposed’ to do 10 years ago (report it to the higher-ups in the university)[/li][li]Suddenly the story breaks, and the legendary coach must be fired immediately.[/li][/ul] Yeah, there would be rioting in Lincoln, Norman, and Tuscaloosa. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-paterno-very-ill-may-be-dying-soon-update-rip-joe-paterno/610259.md?page=5)