# Joe Queenan: Leno=Hitler
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [January 26, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579 "2010-01-26T22:32:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/1 "2010-01-26T22:32:15Z")
Sure, a lot of Dopers are angry about NBC’s decision to replace Conan O’Brien with Jay Leno, but is anyone [THIS upset](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704375604575023132215883398.html?mod=WSJ_latestheadlines)?
> [@](#):
>
> Jay Leno, much like Adolf Hitler, is a master of making secret demands for foreign territory and then acting like the wronged party. First he pretended that he wanted to annex only the first half-hour of Mr. O’Brien’s “Tonight Show.” Here he was mimicking Hitler, who insisted that he merely wanted to annex the German-speaking Sudetenland, not all of Czechoslovakia. . .
>
> NBC thought it could put the whole ugly controversy to rest. Wrong. Interpreting generosity as weakness, Mr. Leno began to maneuver for complete control of “The Tonight Show.” Here he was again taking his cue from der Fuhrer, manipulating his outgunned adversary into a position so humiliating he literally had no choice but to surrender.
There’s more, but you get the general idea.
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### Author:  [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/2 "2010-01-26T22:40:20Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Mr. Queenan, _ **a satirist,** _ is the author, most recently, of the memoir “Closing Time” (Viking, 2009).
bolding mine
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/3 "2010-01-26T22:42:33Z")
Conan O’Brien sucks and they lost about half their viewers. Conan made out like a bandit on this deal. This event is the funniest thing O’Brien has done in his entire career.
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### Author:  [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2010, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/4 "2010-01-26T23:10:37Z")
I know a lot of people consider Jay too tame and a corporate shill because of his supposed screwing of Letterman and then O’Brien, and apparently the Doritos commercial, but I simply do not get the hatred for the man.
It’s been said that he’s cultivated this good guy persona for years but yet it seems that when the chips are down, people who already hate him are coming out of the woodwork to blast him.
Everything I’ve read about him reinforces the fact that he’s a good guy and a loyal NBC man and a very hard worker. He explained the whole situation on his show. He did not push Conan out, nor did he angle for his old job back. I don’t believe all the shit about him one bit because none of that has ever been part of his character. One can say that he’s tame and bland, but one cannot question his dedication or his hardwork. You may not like him reading typos from newspapers, but stuff like that is worth a contract in the 8 figures and #1 ratings at night.
I completely fault NBC for this. They thought Jay would fall in ratings when 2003 became 2009 and he didn’t. They still pushed him out instead of renegotiating with O’Brien. They offered him a show at a bad timeslot to try and compete with CSI’s 17 million people. They wanted to force O’Brien out after 7 months because of some silly complaints about ratings. In the end, they got the worse scenario possible. They still lost O’Brien, the Tonight Show’s damaged, and Letterman’s leading in the ratings. Who knows if Jay’s going to be able to get him back. Jay’s name is now synonymous with someone who overstayed his welcome, even though he was still #1 when he was moved.
I hope people can try to see it from Leno’s point of view. This wasn’t his fault
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### Author:  [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/5 "2010-01-27T00:20:21Z")
Leno is a comedian, for God’s sake! Just the fact he has murdered six million Jews does not make this an apt comparison.
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### Author:  [@Jester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jester)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/6 "2010-01-27T00:20:57Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#):
>
> Everything I’ve read about him reinforces the fact that he’s a good guy and a loyal NBC man and a very hard worker. He explained the whole situation on his show. He did not push Conan out, nor did he angle for his old job back. I don’t believe all the shit about him one bit because none of that has ever been part of his character. One can say that he’s tame and bland, but one cannot question his dedication or his hardwork. You may not like him reading typos from newspapers, but stuff like that is worth a contract in the 8 figures and #1 ratings at night.
>
> I completely fault NBC for this. They thought Jay would fall in ratings when 2003 became 2009 and he didn’t. They still pushed him out instead of renegotiating with O’Brien. They offered him a show at a bad timeslot to try and compete with CSI’s 17 million people. They wanted to force O’Brien out after 7 months because of some silly complaints about ratings. In the end, they got the worse scenario possible. They still lost O’Brien, the Tonight Show’s damaged, and Letterman’s leading in the ratings. Who knows if Jay’s going to be able to get him back. Jay’s name is now synonymous with someone who overstayed his welcome, even though he was still #1 when he was moved.
>
> I hope people can try to see it from Leno’s point of view. This wasn’t his fault
I was more or less in agreement with you about Leno’s explanation, but then I happened upon [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWKwylGBSoI), and my opinion kind of changed. The guy can’t have it both ways.
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### Author:  [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2010, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/7 "2010-01-27T00:31:46Z")
> [@njtt](#):
>
> Leno is a comedian, for God’s sake! Just the fact he has murdered six million Jews does not make this an apt comparison.
Well, Hitler murdered six million Jews, too.
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### Author:  [@Jester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jester)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/8 "2010-01-27T00:34:48Z")
> [@bup](#):
>
> Well, Hitler murdered six million Jews, too.
Yeah, but Leno used laughing gas.
I’m a terrible person.
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### Author:  [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/9 "2010-01-27T01:59:50Z")
Yeah but as long as Leno doesn’t invade Russia he’ll be OK
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### Author:  [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/10 "2010-01-27T02:15:45Z")
I get that Queenan’s a satirist, but I saw this before and thought the whole article was kinda…head-scratching. I’m no Leno fan, but the analogy feels kinda forced and off the mark. ☹
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### Author:  [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/11 "2010-01-27T06:40:16Z")
> [@Jester](#):
>
> I was more or less in agreement with you about Leno’s explanation, but then I happened upon [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWKwylGBSoI), and my opinion kind of changed. The guy can’t have it both ways.
I watched that and I have to admit, it’s sounds very sincere. However, I have another take on it if you don’t mind.
This was 2004, about 6 months or so after the decision was made to give the Tonight Show to Conan. I don’t think anyone at this time even had the Jay Leno Show at 10pm as a glimmer in their eye. Given that, I believe this kind of send-off was the only thing Jay could have done. The decision was made only 6 months prior, and he has 5 more years of show left to do, so he could either be a gentleman accepting that or bitch for 5 years on TV, in which case nobody would be happy and the brand would have been damaged.
In 2004, Jay could not have said anything else. He still had millions of dollars owed to him and years of show left, and any contract negotiations about what he’s going to do afterwards wouldn’t probably even begin for another 4.5 years. I believe he said what a good guy would have said in that instance, and that is give all the encouragement and to Conan and wish him well.
Fast forward 5 years later and somebody gets the idea for a 10pm Leno show. Nobody here’s privy to what was discussed in the meetings, but given that Jay’s character thus far has been pretty devoid of blemishes, I would give him the benefit of the doubt and say that NBC offered the show to him and he accepted. I don’t believe he fought to stay on TV against the wishes of Conan and NBC.
Again, just speculating here, but I don’t think the genesis for the Leno show came from him, but from NBC. Given a chance to keep doing what he likes, but hand over the flagship brand to Conan too, I think at the time everybody would have agreed this was a good decision. They just didn’t foresee how badly both shows would have done in the ratings.
People are attacking Jay because he “won’t retire”. But if you listen to that clip, he never said he was going to retire. He said he was going to leave the Tonight Show and he did exactly that. He said he’d had it off to Conan and he did. He did joke that some people stay too long in show business, and I think people latch onto that and ran with it. But as far as the rest of it goes, he did what he said he was going to do and gave it to Conan without a fuss.
What I believe happened during the meetings about a year ago before Conan took over was that NBC reconsidered letting Jay go. Though they asked him to leave, they were now the 4th place network and wanted to hold on to a proven personality. I think Jay was all set to leave until NBC offered him the 10pm show and, still having the show biz bug, he accepted.
So pretend you’re an NBC executive about a year ago. Jay’s leaving his #1 show, Conan’s taking over, and you are in desperate need of a ratings hit or at the very least, something cheap that will fill time. Does it make sense to let Jay just walk away? Why would anyone honestly think that Leno’s show would do SO bad as a lead-in that it would kill the Tonight Show AND the Leno show AND piss off the affiliates?
And now pretend you’re Jay. NBC just offered you millions to do a show with all of the staff you’ve worked with over the past 16 years, a show that you’re proven to be good at, and at a better timeslot. Why would you turn it down?
Last, pretend you’re Conan. Now his mind is the least transparent in this issue. I can imagine NBC wanting to keep both. I can imagine Jay agreeing to continue his hosting gig on a different show and time. I cannot know what Conan thought about it. He was very very gracious in his final Late Night show to Jay and thanked him for continuing to be his lead-in, but he may just have equally thought that he should have been given the chance to host a late night talk show without his predecessor still in the limelight.
That’s where I think most Conan fans and Leno haters converge. They think Conan MUST have wanted the Tonight Show all to himself. They think Jay MUST have demanded a show back or threatened to go to another network. And they think NBC completely regretted its decision and tried to worm Leno back to 11:35. Of these 3, I can only see the last one being true. We don’t know anything at all about Conan. And I do believe that the good guy persona Leno has cultivated in the past few dozen years is real, so I cannot believe he demanded to trip up Conan on purpose.
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### Author:  [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2010, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/12 "2010-01-27T07:00:19Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#):
>
> I get that Queenan’s a satirist, but I saw this before and thought the whole article was kinda…head-scratching. I’m no Leno fan, but the analogy feels kinda forced and off the mark. ☹
If the analogy was apt and natural, it wouldn’t be a satire, it would just be an analogy.
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### Author:  [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2010, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/13 "2010-01-27T07:30:14Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#):
>
> Again, just speculating here, but I don’t think the genesis for the Leno show came from him, but from NBC. Given a chance to keep doing what he likes, but hand over the flagship brand to Conan too, I think at the time everybody would have agreed this was a good decision.
No, I’m pretty sure a lot of people knew it was a bad idea. Leno and Conan both probably knew it was a bad idea and that the situation was untenable. It is just that both of them had reasons they couldn’t say so. Conan because he had no choice, and Leno because he didn’t really want to leave.
NBC acted almost like the Tonight Show was being moved to 10pm. I definitely saw way more promos for Leno than Conan. And Leno was on the Tonight Show long enough that to many people, they watched “Leno” at night, not “the Tonight Show.” With Leno still there, just a bit earlier, it isn’t surprising that Conan would have trouble getting Leno’s old viewers.
Personally, I think Conan would have had a good chance to succeed on the Tonight Show if Leno had ever really left. While there were some awkward bits, those could have been eliminated. He lost a lot of material in the move from Late Night and needed time to build it up again.
Leno did exactly what he claimed he wouldn’t do in the video. I can cut him some slack, because he couldn’t have said anything else at the time. But he did do exactly what he said he wouldn’t.
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### Author:  [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2010, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/14 "2010-01-27T11:15:25Z")
> [@Manduck](#):
>
> If the analogy was apt and natural, it wouldn’t be a satire, it would just be an analogy.
Fine. Then the satire’s just not very funny. 😛
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### Author:  [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2010, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/15 "2010-01-27T11:27:04Z")
I remember about 5 years ago whenever the subject of TV stars came up anywhere, Leno was mentioned as an example of the nicest, most honorable big star around. Now he’s Hitler? 😉
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2010, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/16 "2010-01-27T13:56:07Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#):
>
> Fine. Then the satire’s just not very funny. 😛
Then the analogy to Leno’s show is apt. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/17 "2010-01-27T14:31:52Z")
> [@Jester](#):
>
> I was more or less in agreement with you about Leno’s explanation, but then I happened upon [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWKwylGBSoI), and my opinion kind of changed. The guy can’t have it both ways.
He’s not asking for it both ways.
From that video:
> [@](#):
>
> I want to elaborate on an announcement made earlier. Today you may have heard about this. I’m going to leave the show in '09. (audience boos) No, let me explain, explain how these things work.
>
> About six months ago, I sat down with the folks at NBC, and they said, “We want to re-up.”
>
> And I said, “OK, what do you want to do?” Because I don’t have a manager, or an agent. . . I like the people I work with; they’re nice folks. And they said … and this is a high paying job. Oh, it’s a great paying job.
>
> So they said, “Listen, we’d like to do five more years.”
>
> So I said, “Great! I’d love to do five more years!”
>
> And that was six months ago. And then time went by; there’s all talk about Conan O’Brien: will he go to ABC, will he go to one of these other networks? And they came to me and they said, “We don’t want to lose Conan O’Brien.”
>
> And I said, “Uh… OK. What does that mean?”
>
> And they said, “Well, we think Conan would be a good replacement…”
>
> As I do. Conan is a gentleman, funny, the hottest late night guy out there… excellent. I said, "You know something? I don’t want to see Conan do anywhere else. I’ll be 59 years old when this leaves, five years from now. That’s 1200 shows. I’m not going anywhere tomorrow. And I said, you know, there’s really only one person who could have done this into his sixties, and that was Johnny Carson. I think it’s fair to say… I’m no Johnny Carson.
>
> So I called up my buddy Jerry Seinfeld and I said, “Jerry, what do you think, you know?” And Jerry quit his show when it was the most popular. And I’m proud to say this show has been number one, we will keep it number one, and then in '09, we’ll say, “Conan, take it over, it’s yours.”
>
> Because… you know, you can do these things until they carry you out on a stretcher, or you can get when.. while you’re still doing good and … hey, I’m not quitting show business. But I realize… I’m not spending enough time with my cars. (laughter)
He didn’t say that he decided to leave the show. He had just agreed with NBC to extend his contract another five years. Then, six months later, worried about Conan leaving, NBC pressured Jay into making the “I’ll leave five years out,” deal.
Jay didn’t do anything wrong. Conan didn’t do anything wrong.
NBC did a bunch of things wrong.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/18 "2010-01-27T14:56:00Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#):
>
> People are attacking Jay because he “won’t retire”. But if you listen to that clip, he never said he was going to retire.
In fact, he says the exact opposite: “I’m not quittin’ show business.”
He says _there’s all talk about Conan O’Brien: will he go to ABC, will he go to one of these other networks? And, and they came to me and they said “we don’t want to lose Conan O’Brien”. And I said “oh. Okay, what does that mean?” And they said, “Well, um, we think Conan would be a good replacement” … the hottest late-night guy out there._ And then, as he shifts tone and talks about how Conan will get the Tonight Show in five years, he adds that _“I’m proud to say this show has been number one, we will keep it number one. And then in ‘09, I’ll say … I’m not quittin’ show business.”_
Now, granted, I’m jumping over stuff to quote out of context. But if we’re really inclined to read a sinister twist into that, we could do it without much fuss; I mean, just picture a bitter Leno saying the exact same things: Oh, so NBC is worried about _ **Conan** _ leaving to do a show on another network five years from now? Is that right? There’s all this talk about _ **Conan?** _ They don’t want to lose _ **Conan?** _ They want _ **Conan** _ to replace me because _ **he** _ might compete against the Tonight Show instead of quitting show business?
Yeah, well, here’s a news flash: _ **I’m** _ not quitting show business either.
I’m number one, and I’ll still be number one in five years.
And that’s why I don’t need an agent, and I don’t need a manager; I’m the hottest late-night guy out there. This kid won’t make it through his first season before NBC comes to Conan and says: “We don’t want to lose Jay.” And he’ll say “oh. Okay, what does that mean?” And they’ll say “Well, uh, meet your replacement.”
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/19 "2010-01-27T15:31:14Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#):
>
> Fine. Then the satire’s just not very funny. 😛
You know who else wasn’t very funny, don’t you? HITLER, that’s who!
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### Author:  [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-queenan-leno-hitler/526579/20 "2010-01-27T15:40:55Z")
> [@Jester](#):
>
> Yeah, but Leno used laughing gas.
Leno made six million people laugh? I’ll believe it when I see it.
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