# Joe Rosenthal **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 22, 2006, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-rosenthal/369722 "2006-08-22T09:07:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-rosenthal/369722/1 "2006-08-22T09:07:12Z")
Not really certain if this is the right forum so will mods move it if required. Joe Rosenthal has died aged 94. The picture he took of the flag raising on Iwo Jima must surely rank as one of the most iconic of war pictures ever taken. R.I.P…Joe ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-rosenthal/369722/2 "2006-08-22T09:11:35Z")
Was it not posed ? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-rosenthal/369722/3 "2006-08-22T09:24:37Z")
**Moderator’s Note:** Doesn’t really seem to be a debate here, so off we go to our forum for “general discussion: from frivolous chatter to deep thoughts; from harmless diversions to life-changing announcements”. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-rosenthal/369722/4 "2006-08-22T09:32:45Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] Was it not posed ? [/QUOTE] While it wasn’t the first flag raised on Mt. Suribachi it wasn’t a staged pose and Rosenthal almost missed the shot. The controversy, aside from it being the second flag raised, arises because of a miscommunication between Rosenthal who was asked whether a picture was posed. He answered “yes” thinking the question referred to another photo. Marc ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-rosenthal/369722/5 "2006-08-22T09:36:03Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] Was it not posed ? [/QUOTE] As **MGibson** states it wasn’t the first flag, that was considered to small so a second flag was raised. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-rosenthal/369722/6 "2006-08-22T19:46:28Z")
RIP. A movie is coming out based on the book by the son of flagraiser John Bradley. I’m planning to stop by the little museum in Elzaville, KY this weekend (my wife is a vendor in some “Covered Bridge Festival,” that Flemingsburg is having) the community has put together for Franklin Sousley (one of the three flagraisers who did not survive the battle–Sousley is the one with the slung rifle in front of Ira Hayes). Of the two flagraisings that day, now only former Corporal Chuck Lindberg (who is in the photo of the _first_ and less epic raising) is still alive. Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-rosenthal/369722/7 "2006-08-22T19:54:01Z")
To add to the explanation of the “posed” shot. After the flag was raised and tied off, Rosenthal asked all the marines there to stand around it and give him a “gung-ho” pose. This picture is the one that he admitted was posed when asked if that “great picture” was posed (he had not yet seen his own photo). At the time he did not know he was being asked if the flagriasing picture was posed. There is 16-mm movie footage of the flagraising that shows it is clearly not posed. It also shows that Rosenthal, by luck, snapped his shot at the exact right moment, as only a millisecond later the flagpole is upright and the six guys stumble all over each other getting it in place. There is also another photo taken showing the little flag being lowered as the big one goes up that also shows it is a continuous action, not something set in place and “posed.” Sir Rhosis Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-rosenthal/369722/8 "2006-08-22T19:55:05Z")
[This page](http://www.iwojima.com/raising/raisingb.htm) features several Iwo Jima photos, including the two flag raisings and the posed shot Rosenthal snapped soon after the iconic picture was taken. ---
**Author:** ![Agonist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/439d5e/32.png) [@Agonist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agonist)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-rosenthal/369722/9 "2006-08-22T22:06:56Z")
Huh. I’ve seen that photo lots of times. But I thought it was a statue. 😕 Did someone make a statue of that photo, or have I always mistaken the picture? ---
**Author:** ![Santos\_L\_Halper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/santos_l_halper/32/1_2.png) [@Santos\_L\_Halper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santos_L_Halper)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-rosenthal/369722/10 "2006-08-22T23:29:39Z")
[QUOTE=Agonist] Huh. I’ve seen that photo lots of times. But I thought it was a statue. 😕 Did someone make a statue of that photo, or have I always mistaken the picture? [/QUOTE] Yep, they made a statue based on the photo. It’s the Marine Corp war memorial and it’s in Arlington VA. Photos and info [here](http://www.iwojima.com/statue/index.htm) and [here](http://www.nps.gov/gwmp/usmc.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-rosenthal/369722/11 "2006-08-22T23:53:01Z")
[QUOTE=Agonist] Huh. I’ve seen that photo lots of times. But I thought it was a statue. 😕 Did someone make a statue of that photo, or have I always mistaken the picture? [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > News-photographer Joe Rosenthal caught the afternoon flag raising in an inspiring Pulitzer Prize winning photograph. When the picture was later released, sculptor Felix W. de Weldon, then on duty with the U.S. Navy, was so moved by the scene that he constructed a scale model and then a life-size model of it. Gagnon, Hayes, and Bradley, the three survivors of the flag raising (the others having been killed in later phases of the Iwo Jima battle), posed for the sculptor who modeled their faces in clay. All available pictures and physical statistics of the three who had given their lives were collected and then used in the modeling of their faces. > > Once the statue was completed in plaster, it was carefully disassembled and trucked to Brooklyn, N.Y., for casting in bronze. The casting process, which required the work of experienced artisans, took nearly 3 years. After the parts had been cast, cleaned, finished, and chased, they were reassembled into approximately a dozen pieces–the largest weighing more than 20 tons–and brought back to Washington, D.C., by a three truck convoy. Here they were bolted and welded together, and the statue was treated with preservatives. > > Erection of the memorial, which was designed by Horace W. Peaslee, was begun in September 1954. It was officially dedicated by President Dwight D. Eisenhower on November 10, 1954, the 179th anniversary of the U.S. Marine Corps. From the National Park Service site [here.](http://www.nps.gov/gwmp/usmc.htm) Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2006, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-rosenthal/369722/12 "2006-08-23T00:26:40Z")
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Raising\_of\_the\_flag\_-\_colored.jpg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Raising_of_the_flag_-_colored.jpg) Here is a colored photo to show and differentiate all six men. FWIW, Staff Sergeant William Genaust captured the event on color 16mm film. And his footage reveals one mistake about the statue that is not obvious in the photo. The footage shows the six men gather around the pole to raise the flag, then shows the flagraising, then the men tying the flagpole down, then shows the group gathered around the flag. In the movie footage, it is clear that Sergeant Mike Strank is not wearing a helmet, just his soft cover (cap). But since he is all but obscured in the iconic photo by Franklin Sousley, anyone who hasn’t seen the Genaust film is none the wiser. Also, after the 1954 dedication ceremony, Jack Bradley refused all interviews and rarely spoke of the photograph, did not even own a copy of it, his son says. He gave one brief interview about the events in 1985 at the behest of his wife “for the grandchildren.” Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2006, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-rosenthal/369722/13 "2006-08-23T14:05:46Z")
I guess my question would be why does it take 4 guys to raise a flag? ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2006, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-rosenthal/369722/14 "2006-08-23T16:30:41Z")
[QUOTE=Hampshire] I guess my question would be why does it take 4 guys to raise a flag? [/QUOTE] Well I figure if it was my countries flag being raised then I damn well would want a hand in raising it. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2006, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-rosenthal/369722/15 "2006-08-23T18:08:38Z")
Really big flags, like the second one, are pretty heavy and with the wind hitting it, they were at the top of a mountain, it takes a lot of guys. The statue is really interesting. There is an ‘extra’ hand in there, representing the hand of God, or is it fate? ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2006, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-rosenthal/369722/16 "2006-08-23T19:03:00Z")
Plus, the “flagpole” was actually a long piece of pipe they found from some Japanese installation that had been on Suribachi. It weighed, according to the three survivors of the raising, around 200 pounds. Sir Rhosis