# Joe the Plumber Becomes Joe the War Correspondent **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 7, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295 "2009-01-07T22:22:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/81 "2009-01-09T20:31:20Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Well, by that rationale, I should think you’d be dying to hear from Joe, just since he’s hated by some on the left… I’ve heard enough from Joe to realize that he’s an uneducated buffoon. He actually said Obama would destroy Israel and turn into another Hitler, or some dumbass crackery like that. > [@](#): > > To address your earlier post (missed it before): as noted, I don’t agree that “journalism” is a skill that requires professional training and an exclusive caste of practitioners (in contra, say, medicine). Perhaps not. But neither is it a job where you walk up to a counter and say “I got interviewed once on TV. Can I be a reporter? I once talked to a presidential candidate; therefore, I deserve to share my ignorance with the masses.” Journalism may not be a highly professional skill requiring years of training and an eight-year degree. However, it should be subject to the same kind of pressure to succeed as any other unskilled career: you start at the bottom and put in your time, and if your work shows promise, you get promoted to a position of authority. I would no more make Joe the Plumber a war correspondent, or give him a stage and an audience of multi-millions, than I would hire Donald Trump to paint my house. If Joe wants the job he can work his way into it and prove his worth; otherwise, he’s not worth my time. **That** is why I would wonder what Michael Moore has to say. He has a track record; he has proven he has enough brain cells to assemble a film crew and edit footage and research a topic. It’s what you call being vetted for the job; the wankers are weeded out. Joe the Plumber… hasn’t been. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/82 "2009-01-10T02:32:02Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Well, by that rationale, I should think you’d be dying to hear from Joe, just since he’s hated by some on the left… > > To address your earlier post (missed it before): as noted, I don’t agree that “journalism” is a skill that requires professional training and an exclusive caste of practitioners (in contra, say, medicine). There was no such thing as formal education for reporters until relatively recently, and I’d argue that the Cronkite/Ben Bradlee generation, to say nothing of the great newspapermen that preceded them, did just fine without it. When Uncle Walter was starting out, journalists were interested in things like getting their _facts_ right. They (the TV journalists) were trying to establish credibility for their work in the medium of TV. That was how they made their name. These days, its all about making a big splash in the news. The older journalists tried to learn something about what it was they were covering. I cannot imagine someone the caliber of Cronkite or Murrow tolerating for a _second_ some of the absolute basic fuckups that CNN and the other news networks have given us in recent years (_Columbia_ travelling 18 times the speed of light, for example). JtP has as much business doing news coverage as I do performing brain surgery. His statement that he’s been spending his time “watching the news to learn how to pronounciate things” (or words to that effect) tells me he sees this as a paycheck, **not** as a chance to get at the heart of the matter, and perhaps present an aspect of the story we’ve not seen. He made **no** mention of, you know, _reading_ anything, trying to get background on what’s going on there. Additionally, _what the fuck can he **really** tell us, even if he’s **not** a drooling fuckwit?_ Lets face it, he’s going there to cover the events while working for a rightwing internet company. If he dares to suggest, even for a moment, that the Israeli’s _aren’t_ 100% right in everything they’re doing (unless, of course, he says that they’re not going far enough to kill muslims), then he’ll be fired in seconds. (And before anyone accuses _me_ of being anti-Israeli, I’d like to state that I’ve got no problem with them responding to missiles being fired at them with military force, but every country is going to make mistakes in what they do. To keep silent about it is only going to enable the same idiots fucking up to keep making the same mistakes over and over again.) If Israel screws up and hits a civilian target, do you think JtP is going to be allowed to report on it? Not a chance. When you add in the fact that he’s an absolute dumbfuck, its pretty clear that he’s **not** a budding “Anderson Cooper” or “Walter Cronkite” waiting in the wings, he’s a tool, pure and simple. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_Clock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Shot\_Clock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_Clock)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/83 "2009-01-10T02:41:30Z")
> [@furt](#): > > In other words, people might care what he says. And this is bad because you don’t like him. > > Fair enough, but I have to ask: would your response would be the same if Barbra Streisand or Michael Moore or Bill Moyers was going over to do reporting? Were you equally upset when Sean Penn went to Iraq? Well, the good folks at [Bananas.com](http://Bananas.com), or [Pajamas.com](http://Pajamas.com), or whatever it is think some people might care what he says. Again- that’s fine. If they think having JTP on their team will help them compete with NewsMax or FreeRepublic for the paranoid, unbalanced simpleton demographic, they can have at it. And I’m willing to concede that its possible for Joe to be some diamond-in-the-rough observer on the human condition, whose writing will touch people of all races, faiths and nations, with its brutally simple yet incisive commentary cutting to the heart of all things that make us humans the same, but somehow, tragically, manage to divide and define us all. I’m also willing to concede that the Hawks will somehow overcome the 71 to 33 halftime deficit that they face tonight. But I’m not counting on it. Now, Joe ain’t some kind of underdog who has been unwittingly forced into his role as Spokesman of the Working Slob, the Common Man, etc. He’s taking this ball and running with it for as long as they call his number. And as such, he invites commentary. He’s already off to a great start, what with his comments about how God will protect him because he’s a Christian and all. **furt** , don’t you see? I’m not saying he’s doing a bad or evil thing. He is a willing participant in what I believe to be a misguided PR adventure. And I think, and have stated, that there is great potential for something to go wrong- way wrong. I hope he gets back safely and without incident. But I expect his trip to be the highlight of **The Daily Show** for a while. And if he does get killed or kidnapped, and the same good folks who brought you the Iraq War start some kind of modern-day “Remember the Maine” effort to “avenge Joe’s memory”, I’m going to comment on that, too. And for the record- Barbra Streisand is a spoiled bitch who has a singular talent for ruining any goodwill that might be held for her by those who have the misfortune of having to deal with her personally. This I know from first-hand experience. If she went barreling over there I’d call her a sheltered, addled twat and advise her to haul her ass back to Manhattan. Furthermore, I said way, way back when that Sean Penn can take his Iraqi “Fact-Finding” mission and stick it someplace unpleasant, because all he’s doing is coming across as a naive fool. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/84 "2009-01-10T06:53:38Z")
Hell, maybe he’ll witness about Jesus to the Israelis and the Hamas, and they will convert on the spot, throw themselves weeping into each other’s arms and mount the Israeli armor for the drive to the Jordan, for mass mutual baptism. Myself, its straight to the nearest Methodist church to log onto my grandmothers heavenly Face Book, to record my “Yep, you were right, I was wrong, thanks for trying but I was too dumb too listen, but I got it _now_, sure as shit…” And you know, I’m pretty sure I’d be a lot happier, with a certain and verifiable faith. No doubt a much better person, just not\* this\* person… ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/85 "2009-01-10T15:48:26Z")
> [@Shot\_Clock](#): > > If she went barreling over there I’d call her a sheltered, addled twat and advise her to haul her ass back to Manhattan. Furthermore, I said way, way back when that Sean Penn can take his Iraqi “Fact-Finding” mission and stick it someplace unpleasant, because all he’s doing is coming across as a naive fool. Fair enough. I sincerely doubt he’s going to become any kind of respected reporter or teach us much of anything we couldn’t have heard anywhere else. But I put his chances of running into mishap as very, very low, and the collective concern of the American people if he did pretty low as well. So my take on it is essentially that it’s a private citizen doing something essentially harmless. It’s just still occasionally surprising to me to see the venom so many partisans have for essentially unimportant people like this. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/86 "2009-01-10T16:28:23Z")
I don’t really think I’m being venomous toward Joe the Plumber himself. He’s a pawn — and obviously he’s making the most of his 15 minutes. Who wouldn’t? The venom, I think, is for this particular right-wing-supporting media group. If they’re typical of the McCain-supporting media, then during the campaign they adhered to platitudes about “competence” and “hiring the best person for the job” and “executive experience” and all that — especially when they could use it to discredit a Democrat — but when the rubber meets the road they hire an incompetent flavor-of-the-month because it’ll make them a few bucks. It seems to me like this is hypocrisy in action. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/87 "2009-01-10T17:19:49Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > I don’t really think I’m being venomous toward Joe the Plumber himself. No, you aren’t – that’s why I bothered talking to you. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/88 "2009-01-12T16:45:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > To be ruthlessly fair, the Israelis aren’t letting _anyone_ go into Gaza, not just wart-brained, all American. bullet headed, Saxon mother’s sons. John 3:20 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/89 "2009-01-12T18:08:01Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > [del]Hmmm…hostage material?[/del] Nah. > > Who’d pay to get him back? Hopefully, no one. I’m thinking “The Ransom of Red Chief”. Hell, I’d kick in :Dsome money, and pay for them to keep him. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/90 "2009-01-12T18:30:19Z")
Well, here he is. This is not a drill: [Joe the Plumber in Israel](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJYCxj8KXjQ) > [@](#): > > “I’ll be honest with you. I don’t think journalists should be anywhere allowed war. I mean, you guys report where our troops are at. You report what’s happening day to day. You make a big deal out of it. I-I think it’s asinine. You know, I liked back in World War I and World War II when you’d go to the theater and you’d see your troops on, you know, the screen and everyone would be real excited and happy for’em. Now everyone’s got an opinion and wants to downer–and down soldiers. You know, American soldiers or Israeli soldiers. I think media should be abolished from, uh, you know, reporting. You know, war is hell. And if you’re gonna sit there and say, ‘Well look at this atrocity,’ well you don’t know the whole story behind it half the time, so I think the media should have no business in it.” ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/91 "2009-01-12T18:52:33Z")
A War Correspondent who doesn’t belive in the public’s right to know. Priceless! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/92 "2009-01-12T19:21:50Z")
I liked that comment by **sspan0019** : Copy and paste if you think God should have made the earth flat so Samuel Wurzelbacher could be pushed over the edge. Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/93 "2009-01-12T19:31:04Z")
This is fantastic. I can’t believe how utterly, uncompromisingly stupid the conservative base is. If I were JTP I’d be hiding my face in shame after having Obama slam dunk my gotcha question. Fuck McCain for pandering to the dregs of society and elevating this half-wit to the public eye. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/94 "2009-01-12T20:28:07Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > [Joe the Plumber in Israel](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJYCxj8KXjQ) We need a word for “so completely hilarious that I laughed until I shit myself, and yet simultaneously so utterly horrifying that I now pray for a comet to shatter our world into fragments and bring an end to our bad joke of a so-called civilization.” My German is rusty. I bet the Germans have a word for this. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/95 "2009-01-12T22:04:02Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > We need a word for “so completely hilarious that I laughed until I shit myself, and yet simultaneously so utterly horrifying that I now pray for a comet to shatter our world into fragments and bring an end to our bad joke of a so-called civilization.” > > My German is rusty. I bet the Germans have a word for this. Gotterdammerung is close enough, so is Ragnarok 😃 ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/96 "2009-01-12T22:52:57Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > We need a word for “so completely hilarious that I laughed until I shit myself, and yet simultaneously so utterly horrifying that I now pray for a comet to shatter our world into fragments and bring an end to our bad joke of a so-called civilization.” > > My German is rusty. I bet the Germans have a word for this. Gotterschadendammerfreudenung? ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/97 "2009-01-12T23:04:26Z")
Pantspoopenweltschreckenflecken ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/98 "2009-01-13T00:52:57Z")
_Dumkopf Plumberen_ > [@](#): > > I’ll be honest with you. I don’t think journalists should be anywhere allowed war. I mean, you guys report where our troops are at. You report what’s happening day to day. You make a big deal out of it. I-I think it’s asinine. “…and I wish to join you.” ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/99 "2009-01-13T01:19:11Z")
Here’s [a Pajamas TV video](http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=video&media-id=3857&video-id=1165&video-title=JOE_WURZELBACHER_CONFRONTS_THE_PRESS_IN_SDEROT%2C_ISRAEL_(short_version)&series-name=Middle_East_Upate) where Joe the Plumber is complaining that a lot of people are getting killed (he’s right - what’s the count, now: about a thousand dead Palestinians, and about 14 dead Israelis?), and that the media’s slanting it as if Israel’s being bad. So he’s pressing a reporter about whether he believes Israel’s being bad, only the reporter turns out to be an Israeli. But even then, JTP keeps on pressing the reporter to demonstrate that the _Israeli reporter_ is sufficiently pro-Israel to satisfy _Joe the Plumber._ As [Ta-Nehisi says](http://ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/01/joe_sixpack_patriotism.php), “Self-pwnage for the lose.” ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295/100 "2009-01-13T02:29:54Z")
Here’s a transcript of the exchange (from [Firedoglake](http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/joe-the-plumber-exposes-blatantly-pro-hamas-israeli-reporter/)) > [@](#): > > ``` > JOE: The story here is people are being killed and the media’s slanting it and trying to make it Hamas is, uh, as far as, that Israel’s being bad. Do you believe Israel is bad? > > REPORTER: Do I believe it? > > JOE: Yeah, do you?! > > REPORTER: I’m Israeli, so… > > JOE: So answer the question! > > REPORTER: No, I don’t think Israel is bad. > > JOE: Do you think Israel has every right to protect itself? > > REPORTER: Yeah. > > [pause] > > JOE: You do?! > > REPORTER: Yeah. > > JOE: Have you said that on air? > > REPORTER: I’m just a reporter. > > ``` This, following Joe’s insistence that reporters aren’t supposed to do anything but state the facts, is priceless. I’m starting to think JoeThePlumber has to be an act. How is it possible _not_ to hold him in contempt? Also, the Pajama’s video site is totally pants. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe-the-plumber-becomes-joe-the-war-correspondent/480295.md?page=6)