# Joe\_Cool, you are a liar and a bigot **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2002, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732 "2002-10-10T21:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/21 "2002-10-11T04:45:55Z")
> [@](#): > > gobear, hasn’t the concept of race been pretty thoroughly debunked? How can you then call me a racist if there is no such thing as race? What the fuck is this shit? Race _as a biological concept_ has been debunked. As a sociological concept, well, we pretty much all check something off on the Census forms. Certainly, the lack of a clear biological difference between races doesn’t seem to be a hinderance to those who want to hate others based on their skin color, and it would be stupid to throw away the word “racist” to describe those people just because the concept of race is biologically meaningless? More importantly, does it fucking matter? Is it acceptable to discriminate against people on the basis of skin color as long as you can use semantics to wriggle out of the “racist” label? Does it make your prejudices become magically more justified if they are based on imaginary criteria? Does showing an inconsistency in **gobear** ’s choice of words make hatred a Christian value? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/22 "2002-10-11T04:50:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > News Flash: **I WAS THERE** , and I saw it. I’m not accusing anything, I’m an f-ing eye witness. I lived five minutes from Paterson by car and 15 on foot. I walked through downtown every single day for 2 years. Smearing and lies? But I guess minty green and google trump my own two eyes. :rolleyes: I don’t accept outrageous statements from proven bigots without proof, and I most especially don’t do so when every reputable and semi-reputable news source I can find indicates nothing like it occurred. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/23 "2002-10-11T04:50:23Z")
**Joe** , yeah, remember when we used to respect **Gobear**? Man, that takes me back. What was that, like, months ago? I forget even why I respected him. Something about his insight and calm tone in a weight-loss clusterfuck. Ah, well. Every dog has its day… and then some start slobbering foam everywhere. I wrote a **Gobear** script for future generations to enjoy, lest this model become too flawed. Here’s what we have so far: > [@](#): > > A) How dare you, [anyone] question my humanity? You call me [anything flawed]? Who are you to speak to god in my name? Do you wear blended cotton? Do you stone yourself when you masturbate? You are a hypocrite, and a liar, and you puport to speak for a [your belief system], when in fact you are a little man. > > B) It’s views like [anything] that support bigotry; where every day a gay man has to hunt for the tiny gay erotic fiction section; where the local video store stocks a poor selection of hot gay porn; whenever gay men are asked to quiet down when they’re screaming at some poor misguided fundie; it’s all bigotry. And it’s all your fault, [today’s victim], for the millions of racist, bigoted actions worldwide, and I will fight for my right to tasty young asian porn, to my dying breath. > > C) Your shrill arguments make it hard to even agree with you if I wanted to which I don’t. > > D) I cordially disagree with you, owing to the fact that you are a shit-stained dead mother of a mephitic monkey who was also stained with shit. Watch out before I hit you with my white-hot actinic gay-death-ray vision! > > E) I don’t apologize. You should apologize to me. Hypocrite! > > F) I’m tired of amusing yu wtih my **ha** sty rants, massively contradoctory arguments and endless streams of typoes! I’m leaving! Wah! > > G) Ok, I’m back! > > H) Ow! No fair making fun of me! Don’t you know I’m gay, and protected by the EPA! Ow ow! I’m leaving, _for-ev-er_.! > > I) As this collage of your post and the [show tune] clearly show, you are still in the wrong. > > J) I may be completely [debunked] by your argument, but if you want to hunker down with racists, liars and hypocrites, cuddle up to them, coddle and stroke and tease them, then we will know you for who you are. You nasty boy. Joe, I’m still working on the algorithm, but I think I can get it under 16k. I figure we owe it to the future generations, what? Big hugs, Ace ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/24 "2002-10-11T05:24:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ace0Spades \* > \*\*Did that rabid dog get loose again, Joe? > > Geez, he’s always wandering of the Rez. 😃 > > I would have given a ten yard penalty for the verbal rape thing, but seeing as he called your fiancee Eva Braun… \*\* You are an amazingly smug being for a lower life form. You seem to have a great skill for coming into a thread and adding your insipid two cents to an argument. If I was to create an algorithm to try and replicate the AceOSpades experience, I’m sure I’d finish in seconds as your lack of wit and creativity would bring it in at less than 2k. Still, it would probably turn out to be virulent, infecting the computers of others with stupidity and a lack of originality. So… rather than create it, I’ll do what your mother should have done, and abort the idea before it is unleashed upon the world. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/25 "2002-10-11T11:03:39Z")
> [@](#): > > My lies about gay people? Let’s see…you first claim that gay people are downtrodden and oppressed, with no rights, then only days later posted again that gay people are happy, successful, and content. Which is it? But I’m the liar. (what lies did I tell about you, anyway?) You falsely claimed that all gay people hate themselves and are miserable, I refuted that clearly false statement. Because gay men might have good jobs does not make those jobs secure against homophobia, and loving my boyfriend does not make gay marriage legal. My boyfriend makes me happy; being able to marry him legally would make me happier. That you can’t figure that out just shows the limits of your intelligence. You’re not worth wasting any energy on. **Ace** , fuck off, troll. **RexDart** , where were you when the fundies were starting this conflict? Don’t pretent to be “fair” when you defend bigots but you say not one word in defense of their victims. You’re not worth wasting a long reply on, \*\*Joe ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/26 "2002-10-11T11:13:24Z")
I’ve met **Joe\_Cool** on a couple occasions. Seems to be a nice enough guy to me. It is possible to hold opinions that people don’t agree with, even stupid ones, and not be an evil demon-spawn who kills puppies and burns teddy bears. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/27 "2002-10-11T11:22:28Z")
You mean it isn’t? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/28 "2002-10-11T11:44:05Z")
> [@](#): > > It is possible to hold opinions that people don’t agree with, even stupid ones, and not be an evil demon-spawn who kills puppies and burns teddy bears. I agree. I thought **Joe\_Cool** was cool because my first encounter with him was in his Dawn of the Dead thread, and anybody who loves zombie flicks has to have something worth liking. But the posts he’s written lately have genuinely infuriated me. And I apologize for the Eva Braun remark. **JerseyDiamond** and I don’t agree on anything, but she doesn’t merit comparison to Hitler’s girlfriend. I’m sorry. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/29 "2002-10-11T12:04:20Z")
Sorry, sorry, that should have read: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Ten bucks says he comes in here and whines to the mods about how this is proof that the SDMB (and society in general, for that matter), thinks it’s okay to bash Christianity. \*\* You mean it isn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/30 "2002-10-11T12:38:18Z")
**Joe\_Cool** , with all due respect, **His4Ever** accused a protege of mine and, by extension, me of near blasphemy and wondered if our minds were being “warped by the evil one.” After a rather long dialog, she and I were able to establish that was not her original intent, nevertheless, the initial statement exists. This week, I told her, quite rightly, that her and your take on Christianity _as presented here_ was driving me away from Christianity and that she was presenting a one-sided view of God. I do not consider that to be a “verbal rapist,” and I don’t consider to be the two to be of equal weight. I have been persecuted by Christians for being different and for having a friend who was different (handicaps, in her case). I may not like it, but it is fact. By the way, the town I grew up in didn’t have Fundamentalist Christians, so it was actually mostly Presbyterians and Catholics doing the bashing (no offended to any of the three). I read some of the stuff you’ve written in Cafe Society, and aside from a dispute about the exact possibilty of salvation for homosexuals (I’m still confused by the “Homosexuals are sinful”/“All that is necessary for salvation is to proclaim Christ as one’s Saviour” dichotomy), I don’t really have a problem with you. I do have a problem with the constant drumbeat of “X is sinful. Y is sinful. Z is sinful. You’re all going to burn in Hell.” I’m _not_ attributing this to you, or even necessarily **His4Ever** , but that is the way the message comes across. I’ve said this many times before, but I’ll give it one more shot. We are _all_ sinful. _None_ of us deserve salvation based on our own merits. Yes, God chides, punishes, and tries to get us to come closer to Him. He also loves and heals. Ten years ago, He reached out to a woman in a mental hospital who believed she was already dead, who knew nothing but fear, pain, and despair, and brought her back to life and hope. At the time, I did not expect to make it out of the hospital. I was also misdiagnosed. I firmly believe that if it had not been for that miracle 10 years ago, I would not be typing these words today. I was nothing, worthless, and lost. My faith was tattered and blown away. God disagreed, and found me, not because of my own faith or merit, but because of His great love. You will continue to preach what you believe, and I will continue to preach what I believe. Both of us, I suspect, are convinced at some level that we Know what God is. Please understand though, that I do not need to be convinced of my own or any other’s unworthiness. What I need to be reminded of is God’s love. Respectfully, CJ ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/31 "2002-10-11T12:40:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > > And finally, I did not distort biblical teaching about homosexuality. It’s all there in black and white. If you don’t accept the bible’s authority, wonderful for you. But don’t tell me it doesn’t say it. \*\* All I can say is, Amen, Joe\_Cool. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/32 "2002-10-11T12:40:48Z")
By the way, **His4Ever** has accepted my apology for my harsh language to her, and I have confessed and atoned for my words to her, you, and **Jersey Diamond**. Do you accept my apology to you for my language? Please be assured that I do consider the strength and harshness of my response to be wrong. CJ ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/33 "2002-10-11T12:50:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cjhoworth \* > \*\*By the way, **His4Ever** has accepted my apology for my harsh language to her, and I have confessed and atoned for my words to her, you, and **Jersey Diamond**. Do you accept my apology to you for my language? Please be assured that I do consider the strength and harshness of my response to be wrong. > > CJ \*\* **CJ** , I know this was directed to **Joe\_Cool** but I just wanted to say that when I get angry or upset or whatever I can be harsh also. Just ask my husband! You’re going through a dificult time. Think nothing of it. I understand and am praying for you. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/34 "2002-10-11T13:40:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > **You falsely claimed that all gay people hate themselves and are miserable, I refuted that clearly false statement.** Uh, what? I said that when? I’m a little tired of your habit of taking each person you don’t like and putting on them the collective sins of everybody who has (in your twisted perception) wronged you in life. > [@](#): > > **Ace, fuck off, troll.** No, Ace, don’t. You’re making this thread worth reading. > [@](#): > > **RexDart, where were you when the fundies were starting this conflict? Don’t pretent to be “fair” when you defend bigots but you say not one word in defense of their victims.** I’m not “the fundies.” I’m Joe\_Cool. If you want to complain about “the fundies” then why don’t you start a thread about them? Since you started this thread about me, how about if you keep it confined to complaining about things that I actually did, eh? I started no conflict with you at all - YOU, in a fit of infantile anger because you don’t like what the bible says, attacked those of us who merely reported it. I have never served any sort of injustice on you, advocated beating or killing or oppressing you, etc. But you just want to act like a childish asshole. I really don’t care whether you like me or not, but if you’re going to bitch and whine in here, at least bitch and whine about what I really did and said, not this imagined garbage. > [@](#): > > **You’re not worth wasting a long reply on, Joe** But I’m worth a thread? :rolleyes: You’re acting just like a chihuahua - not doing anything productive, only yapping constantly. And it’s giving me a headache. Give it a rest already. ---
**Author:** ![EchoKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@EchoKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EchoKitty)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/35 "2002-10-11T13:51:43Z")
Feh. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/36 "2002-10-11T14:11:51Z")
**Joe\_ Cool** , there is not a thing that I could type on this board that would be anywhere near the equivalent, physically, morally, or by any other criteria, of rape. You should apologize to everyone on that list. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/37 "2002-10-11T14:20:15Z")
**Gobear** : That’s one hell of a persecution complex you’ve got there. Here, I’ll state it plainly, you stubborn rabid chihuahua: [ul] [li]People who’s opinions you don’t like are _not_ the same as millions of gaybashers worldwide.[/li] [li]People who insult you are _not_ trolls.[/li] [li]Joe\_Cool is _not_ all fundies.[/li][/ul] I’ve met Joe – in a bar, even – where we played 9-Ball, the horrors. He’s a good looking man, with dark hair and goatee IIRC; his fiancée is gorgeous, like Mariah Carey, if Mariah Carey was sweet, and nice, and better looking; they both struck me as mensches; Not once did they damn this atheist to hell, (or even bring up religion); Not once did they make judgmental opinions of the other bar patrons; Not once did they cast disdain upon the drug users of 10th avenue, not once. Can you understand, then, regardless of my thoughts on the correctness of their opinions, it upsets me to see them treated unfairly, being treated as faceless members of a class, or compared to Hitler? Good for you for apologizing about comparing **Jersey\_Diamond** to Eva Braun, but why would you post such a thing in the first place? Your disproportionate agnger, your hasty and lazy thoughts, your gross generalizations and strange insults, and last but most importantly, your bigoted – yes I said bigoted – interactions with **Joe\_Cool** among others ‘fundies’ all bespeak a **massive persecution complex**. Why, I haven’t the foggiest, but **demonizing and dehumanizing individuals on the SDMB is not the answer.** ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/38 "2002-10-11T14:22:45Z")
[QUOTE] _Originally posted by RexDart \* \*\* By the way, why is it that some people think they’re so frickin’ clever to refer to god as “she” and “her”, like **gobear** does in his OP? Does he think that’s a really original and witty way to attack a Christian? I can almost visualize him writing it in male pronouns originally and then thinking “haha, I should change that to female pronouns just to piss off **Joe\_Cool** , I bet that will really get his goat!” Well, I guess I should just bow down to the power of **gobear** ’s mighty wit._\* What? Why is referring to God as “she” an insult? God is not “male” or “female”. I realize it may be traditional to refer to God as male, but the Bible uses female language to describe God in many instances. (ex. “El Shaddai”, “Shad” = female breast.)Why would anyone take offense to referring to God as “she?” Unless you consider “she” to be a weaker name, somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/39 "2002-10-11T14:29:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ace0Spades \* > \*\*Not once did they damn this atheist to hell, (or even bring up religion); Not once did they make judgmental opinions of the other bar patrons; Not once did they cast disdain upon the drug users of 10th avenue, not once. \*\* Then why do they insist on doing it online? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/40 "2002-10-11T14:41:17Z")
> [@](#): > > But you just want to act like a childish asshole. I really don’t care whether you like me or not, but if you’re going to bitch and whine in here, at least bitch and whine about what I really did and said, not this imagined garbage. What imagined garbage? read the OP; I’m not busting you for your views on gays–I’m busting you because you A. Accused **Kirkland, MrVisible, Guinastasia, Vanilla, Cjhoworth,** and me of being verbal rapists, and then you tried to weasel out of it by claiming you meant soemthing else. b. You lied about the Palestinian inhabitants of Paterson, NJ, celebrating 9/11, and made some extremely racist comments in the thread I referenced. And your retort is even more bizarre [quote] gobear, hasn’t the concept of race been pretty thoroughly debunked? How can you then call me a racist if there is no such thing as race? And I wasn’t aware that there was ever thought to be a “Palestinian” race, I thought it was just negroid, caucasoid, and mongoloid. You sure do seem to have a selective memory when it suits you. [quote] Let me spell it out so even you can understand, hating people for their ethnic origin is racism. You wrote, " So in my limited experience, I have found Palestinians to be a very hateful people." You’re a racist. > [@](#): > > Last time I checked I wasn’t Jack Chick, and if you had bothered to actually read the thread that got you so fired up, you’d see that I don’t read Jack Chick, either. Apologize? Not likely From this, you make it sound like you have nothing to do with Chick. But you also wrote > [@](#): > > To be honest, I’m not a big fan of Jack Chick, but that’s only because his cartoons are a bit cheesy for my taste, not because they present glaring contradictions to the bible. My fiancee says she has gotten a lot out of them, and I doubt she’s the only one. Please, humor me. **Show me, with scriptural backup, how Jack Chick is a liar and bearer of false witness.** So it sure sounds like you support Chick’s lies about catholics, Mormons, Muslims, and the like. Hypocrite, much? > [@](#): > > My lies about gay people? Let’s see…you first claim that gay people are downtrodden and oppressed, with no rights, then only days later posted again that gay people are happy, successful, and content. Which is it? But I’m the liar. You said it, but your post and my reply seem to have been eaten in the last board crash. In any event the gist of my reply in that thread is that you said gays were unhappy creatures tortured by their sin, I said that was not so because there are many happy, successful, content gays living ordianry lives. Of course, we’d be happier if we had inheritance rights, legal marriage, automatic health coverage for spouses, joint tax filing for couples, and the like. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732.md?page=3)