# Joe\_Cool, you are a liar and a bigot **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2002, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732 "2002-10-10T21:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/41 "2002-10-11T14:54:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Your disproportionate agnger, your hasty and lazy thoughts, your gross generalizations and strange insults, and last but most importantly, your bigoted – yes I said bigoted – interactions with Joe\_Cool among others ‘fundies’ all bespeak a massive persecution complex. “Persecution complex”? So you’re saying that I and every other gay person here, is imagining the fundie assault on gay rights? We’re imagining Lon Mabon, Fred Phelps, Donald Wildmon, Jack chick, James Dobson, and Jerry Falwell? We’re imagining the fundie-backed wave of anti-gay[referenda](http://www.detnews.com/2001/editorial/0108/08/a09-262072.htm)? The SDMB fundies are firmly on the side of people who want to circumscribe my rights as an American citizen–I have a right to resist this in any way possible and to make my anger known. **Joe** wrote > [@](#): > > You know, gobear, you can bash me all you want - it’s meaningless to me. But the reprehensible way you talk about my fiancee really makes this business of being a Christian difficult. When you call my relationship with the man I love “sin,” I find THAT reprehensible. You have no right to hurt feelings when you hurt me and mine by regarding us as evil and inferior because you disapprove of my mate’s gender. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/42 "2002-10-11T15:32:41Z")
> [@](#): > > interactions with Joe\_Cool among others ‘fundies’ all bespeak a massive persecution complex. Why, I haven’t the foggiest, but demonizing and dehumanizing individuals on the SDMB is not the answer. This is probably the most humorously ironic thing I have read yet this week. Gay-hating fundies and Republican-hating liberals make _fabulous_ bedfellows. Keep up the good work, **Ace**! ---
**Author:** ![More\_Cowbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@More\_Cowbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/More_Cowbell)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/43 "2002-10-11T15:40:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Homebrew \* > \*\*Then why do they insist on doing it online? \*\* For the same reasons certain groups of people wear hoods. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/44 "2002-10-11T16:07:29Z")
I would personally like a specific example of how I “verbally raped” **His4ever**. Unless, by “verbally raped”, you mean quoted the Scriptures that show one is not supposed to judge their fellow man and tell that person they are going to Hell. Or by saying Jack Chick is an evil bigoted scum. (Funny, YES, though.) ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/45 "2002-10-11T16:49:26Z")
> [@](#): > > For the same reasons certain groups of people wear hoods. Wow. That is so wrong on so many levels that I don’t even wanna start with it. But I will say one thing–the KKK wears the hoods to protect their anonymity. **Joe\_Cool** is not anonymous. Lots of us know him IRL. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/46 "2002-10-11T17:28:21Z")
Okay, **Joe**. FWIW, I don’t consider you to be an obnoxious or evil man. I think you have exactly the wrong slant on why I do what I do – I’m not interested in “watering down” the Gospel, as you alleged over in GD, but in presenting the Good News of God’s love and forgiveness to mankind, and in combatting those who appear to be trying to restrict His Atonement to “just their kind of people.” And, to be blunt about it, the posts that have come from you, **Jersey** , and **His4Ever** _do_ seem to be trying to do just that. I strongly suspect that is not your intention; I’m reporting to you my _impression_ from their content, for your information and eventual correction. I’m confident that you, **Jersey** , and **His4Ever** see the posts of **gobear** , **Kirkland** , and some others as being totally unjust and calling you names that you do not deserve. However, I do not know whether you have ever been on the receiving side of prejudice, but I can vouch for the fact that it makes you angry. And that is exactly what is happening to them, and the people committing the prejudicial acts against them are founding their “reasoning” on the sorts of arguments you three are using as regards homosexuality and Scripture. Over in the **His4Ever** pit thread, I had this to say to her, just before she said she was stopping posting to it. She never answered me, and I don’t know if she read it. But it’s something I feel very strongly about, and I’d welcome you reading it and reacting. [quote] > [@](#): > > **Kirkland** : Which God? Polycarp’s? His4’s? They’re not the same entity. They’re not even remotely similar. > > And I’m not so sure that I believe in either of them any more, so why should I give a crap about praising an entity who, by one version of it, will burn me in hell for all eternity for the sin of being honest. If that’s who God is, then fuck God and everyone who worships him. > > ## **His4Ever** : Kirkland, I wonder why you are directing all your anger toward me when I’m not the only person on this board who believes the way I do about at least one of the subjects you mention. I’ve read posts by others like Joe\_Cool who confirm what the Bible says about a certain thing yet you don’t rail against him/her. You keep calling me a liar and evil, etc etc. Why is it lying to repeat what God says about something? Especially when I’m asked a direct question about it. And as to Mormonism and Catholicism, I’m familiar with some of their beliefs and I simply don’t agree with them. I never said that there couldn’t be true Christians that are part of these religions. Surely I can give my opinion and beliefs about something the same as everyone else can. I don’t know, there seems to be something very amiss here. I stand by what God’s word says about certain things and if for that reason you must hate me, I guess that’s your privilege. Perhaps you don’t, but I believe it’s God’s word, not just myths or legends of an old book. Sorry if that bothers you. I’m concerned about you and wonder why you must be so nasty toward me. It doesn’t help anything. In Christ, His4ever > > Forgive me for using you as the example yet again, \*\*His4Ever[/b[, but I think you need to hear something here. > > When I first “met” **Kirkland** online two years ago, he was a recent convert to Catholicism, on fire for the Lord, knowledgeable as only a convert can be about his new faith, willing to patiently explain what some concept meant over and over and over again, a sheer joy to behold as a brother in Christ. And his sexuality was well shut and locked into the closet. > > Words have power. If you haven’t gotten the message from gobear’s posts yet, people who believe as you do are quite happy to deny gay people the right to marry, the right to visit their beloved in the hospital, the right to leave their worldly goods to the person they love when they die, the right to rent a decent home, the right to hold a decent job, the right to walk down the street unmolested by people full of hate, even in extreme cases the right to remain alive. > > **Kirkland** ’s faith has been trashed by people who are not willing to listen to what they have to say about what is possible and not possible for them to do, how they feel, what they’ve been through, who they really are – and instead take the same four passages of Scripture to paint them as evil, hateful people in a conspiracy to destroy the idea of a family and most of the moral standards of America – which I can vouch full well that they are mostly doing no such thing. > > You have every right to hold your opinions, and hopefully by interacting with others here to share them, to reshape them based on what you’ve learned (e.g., that Jack Chick is in error on what he understands Catholics and Mormons to believe). That doesn’t mean you need to become a Catholic or a Mormon; it means you know what they truly do believe, and disagree with it, instead of objecting to myths about their faith. > > It means that you treat your gay brothers and sisters with the love and compassion that Jesus would, not with cold quotations from the Bible on their particular sins. > > It is on the hands of the people who use the Bible for hateful purposes that the blood of those who turn away from God because of their hate will rest. And it will be a day of wrath for those who, out of their love for the Bible, support those who preach hate in God’s name. > > Your choice is quite simple. Can you show Christian love (and I emphatically do not mean warning about what happens to unrepentant sinners) to the people who have reviled you here? It will not mean renouncing your belief in the Bible as God’s word; it will simply mean employing the part of that book where Jesus tells us how to treat our fellow man, rather than the codified commandments of what Christians (or anybody else who fears God’s judgment) shalt not do. > > Can you love **Kirkland** or **gobear** in Christ’s name, as your brothers for whom He died? Or is it more important to rub in to them that they are forever condemned, without hope of true repentance and amendment of life, by your understanding of a couple of passages in the Bible? Because on the basis of the many-times-repeated fact that gays cannot change their orientation and God condemns gay sex and thought is as bad as deed when it comes to sex, they’re in a Catch-22 situation – and the last thing they need is to be harassed in this earthly life before they go to their punishment. > > Or maybe, just maybe, can you conceive of a God so compassionate that He understands what a gay person is going through, and loving enough to forgive them. > > Because He did. > > Your words have power to condemn, whether you meant them to or not. **Kirkland** then and now stands as an object lesson. Will you damn him with your quotes? Or will you show him that God’s love includes him too? > > I’d like to preach that message to every evangelical, fundamentalist, and literalist in the U.S. I get the chance only to say it to you. > > What will you choose? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/47 "2002-10-11T17:44:32Z")
**Polycarp** , bear in mind that I opened this thread to blast **Joe\_Cool** for his racial bigotry and his casual use of rape as a metaphor. There’s no point to rehashing his abhorrence of people like me and **Kirkland** because **Joe** and his droogs won’t listen. He thinks it’s OK to refer to the person I love as an abomination and our relationship a sin, yet he is infuriated when I mock his gf as Eva Braun. He is free to dish out as much hate as he pleases, but I’m not allowed to retaliate. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/48 "2002-10-11T20:28:09Z")
Number 1: its **not** there in black and white in the scriptures. gobear, i am glad someone called them out. Joe\_Cool and JerseyDiamond are so sanctimonious and condescending that I started to wonder last night if maybe…just maybe…they are **really** satanists, and by acting and posting so stupidly, are actually trying to make everyone hate their religion (suppodsedly chrsitianity). Pretty clever, if true. If not, it seems to be working that way, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/49 "2002-10-11T20:40:24Z")
“Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance.” – A quote I love and would welcome knowing the source for **Gobear** , my apologies for the hijack, but in my mind that’s right at the core of the problem. From my personal contacts I don’t think **Joe** intends to be condemnatory or any such thing in what he says, he’s merely operating out of a worldview that says he needs to “stand for what the Bible says” and that anything contrary to that is R-O-N-G wrong. (In my opinion, _I_ am standing by what the Bible says, and he and his cohorts are selectively quoting to make a particular case presumably based on their own tastes, but that’s a whole different argument.) It’s my hope that rephrasing your message: > [@](#): > > He thinks it’s OK to refer to the person I love as an abomination and our relationship a sin, yet he is infuriated when I mock his gf as Eva Braun. He is free to dish out as much hate as he pleases, but I’m not allowed to retaliate. …in words that evoke exactly what the Man whom He and I both call Savior and Lord had to say about fair and compassionate treatment of others, and **show** him, through the person of **Kirkland** , what his words can lead to, will inspire him to… Well, I don’t know what. He’s apparently bound into the concept of “the Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it.” But I would hope that he would have kind and generous words for you and **Kirk** , and perhaps an apology, if not for his own words and actions, then for what those who speak as he does have done to you and others like you. We’ll see. I’m not going to prejudge him on that basis, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/50 "2002-10-11T20:44:48Z")
Ok, after rereading all the His4ever threads, it appears an apology is in order. Guinastasia, I was wrong to include you in that list. I must have been thinking of something else, but to be honest, I don’t know what. You do tend to be a little hot under the collar sometimes, but though I disagree with your views, I understand your need to defend them. I am sorry. Vanilla, you also were not hateful to H4e. Mocking, dismissive, and rude, but not hateful. I was wrong to include you as well. Finally, cjhoworth, while I believe that your words were inappropriately sharp, you also did not say anything on the level of the garbage that gobear and MrVisible have spewed. And as she has already accepted your apology, what business is it of mine not to? I hope the three of you will accept mine as well. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/51 "2002-10-11T20:47:00Z")
you are forgiven. 70 times 7. But, please work on humbleness. ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/52 "2002-10-11T20:53:49Z")
Of course, Joe will not apologize for his “verbal rape” comment. He doesn’t have the character. And even if he did, he wouldn’t mean it. People like him are nothing more than walking lies. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/53 "2002-10-11T21:02:36Z")
Poly wrote: > [@](#): > > “Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance.” – A quote I love and would welcome knowing the source for It’s called Hanlon’s Razor, and sorry for the nitpick, but it’s actually, “Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.” — Robert Heinlein (_Logic of Empire_, 1941) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/54 "2002-10-11T21:14:40Z")
Lib – I knew Heinlein used it (that’s where I first learned it) – but he was quoting it from somebody else. I was wondering the source. Besides, I paraphrased slightly, since I’d much rather call **Joe** “ignorant” (meaning, he doesn’t know or understand a particular point) than “stupid” (meaning, his intelligence is not such as to be able to understand that point). As a board, we’ve “been combatting ignorance since 1975” – **Joe** included. And it’s often been our own that we fight against. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/55 "2002-10-11T21:20:53Z")
My MIL and FIL are wonderful loving examples of what a true Christian life can be. So is **Polycarp** and posters like him. If I ever convert to Christianity, it will be exactly because of these people. What role models for a good life The judgemental attitudes of posters like **Joe Cool** and **His4ever** towards my gay brothers and sisters are one of the many reasons that I run screaming from the church. As long as folks like this can preach the doctrine of hate and call it love, I will remain forever on the outside. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/56 "2002-10-11T21:32:32Z")
Well, I was able to vent my anger at **Joe** and I’m willing to cut him some slack now, especially after he made the, for him, magnanimous gesture of apologizing to **CJHoworth, Guinistasia,** and **Vanilla**. That impressed me. > [@](#): > > He doesn’t have the character. And even if he did, he wouldn’t mean it. People like him are nothing more than walking lies. See, I don’t want to be like **Kirkland** either, who is rapidly turning into a reverse-color copy of everything I dislike about fundies. for me, the thing that depresses me most about **Joe\_Cool, JerseyDiamond** and **His4Ever** is that they have turned their faith into a walled fortress of fear, rigidity, and prejudice and locked themselves inside. They keep themselves safe form alien thought by keeping close to their church and shunning books, art, and science. It seems odd to me, for example, that all three cling to the 19th-century concept of young earth creationism, fearing to learn about the wider world of science. The Christian tradition has been that exploring the mysteries of the natural world is paying homage to the beauty of God’s handiwork. some of the greatest scientists, like Isaac Newton and Michael Faraday, have been beleieiving Christians. Further, they seem completely unaware of the world of Christian literature. No, not the insipid and trivial Left Behind books, but _A Serious Call to a Devout and Holy Life_, by William Law, _The Seven Storey Mountain_ by Thomas Merton, the fantasies of Charles Williams, where the armies of God struggle with the forces of darkness, _The Cost of Discipleship_ by Dietrich Bonhoeffer\*, or _The Imitation of Christ_ by Thomas a Kempis, to name a few. It’s such a shame that I can’t take them to Chartres Cathedral, where they could be enveloped by the beauty of its rose window. I wish I could show them Byzantine icons and Frankish reliquaries and open their minds to the complete panoply of Man’s capturing his devotion to God in wood, metal, and stone. I guess my anger has burned out, and now I just feel sorry for them, trapped as they are in such a stunted, drab, joyless worldview. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/57 "2002-10-11T21:33:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > As a board, we’ve “been combatting ignorance since 1975” And part of that is reminding the vets that it’s **Fighting Ignorance Since 1973 (It’s Taking Longer than We Thought)**🙂 ::flees:: ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/58 "2002-10-11T21:46:20Z")
Boy, Jesus must sure be lovin’ this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/59 "2002-10-11T21:59:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > **"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance." – A quote I love and would welcome knowing the source for** I resent this characterization of my opinion. I may not have been a Christian as long as you have, but I did not trip over a tract in the gutter just yesterday, and I did not blindly swallow opinions that were fed to me by the first wacko that I met. My views regarding the Bible are the result of being a Christian for nearly 22 years, and about ten years of study. You can feel free to disagree with me all you want, but please do not condescend and dismiss my views as mere ignorance, as though you were chuckling at a four-year-old’s amusingly vivid imagination. > [@](#): > > **Gobear, my apologies for the hijack, but in my mind that’s right at the core of the problem. From my personal contacts I don’t think Joe intends to be condemnatory or any such thing in what he says, he’s merely operating out of a worldview that says he needs to “stand for what the Bible says” and that anything contrary to that is R-O-N-G wrong. (In my opinion, _I_ am standing by what the Bible says, and he and his cohorts are selectively quoting to make a particular case presumably based on their own tastes, but that’s a whole different argument.)** Incorrect. I am selectively quoting to make a particular case, but it does not have anything to do with my tastes. I am making a particular case because that is evidently all anybody wants to hear about my (and JD’s and H4e’s) views, because it is their little pet complaint with the bible and the “bad Christians” who accept it as the word of God. Not to mention the fact that it is one topic that can dependably produce a pile-on when one of us is baited (you might prefer to say “challenged”) to defend it. But you are correct in that I’m not condemning anybody. I have only been a messenger. Jesus himself is the one who will judge the living and the dead, not I. > [@](#): > > \*\*It’s my hope that rephrasing your message: > > …in words that evoke exactly what the Man whom He and I both call Savior and Lord had to say about fair and compassionate treatment of others, and **show** him, through the person of **Kirkland** , what his words can lead to, will inspire him to… > > Well, I don’t know what. He’s apparently bound into the concept of “the Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it.” But I would hope that he would have kind and generous words for you and **Kirk** , and perhaps an apology, if not for his own words and actions, then for what those who speak as he does have done to you and others like you. > > We’ll see. I’m not going to prejudge him on that basis, that’s all. \*\* Had I met gobear in person prior to this entire debacle, I would have treated him with the same kindness that I would show anyone else, gay or straight, Christian or not. However, given that I have had the opportunity to witness the way he treats anyone who does not coddle him and his views, reassuring him that everything he says is right and true, and especially given the way he spews personal insults at my fiancee in a pathetic attempt to hurt me, I wonder whether I’d have the strength to treat him with the respect I would have previously. However, keep in mind that my opinion of and dislike for him spawn not from his atheism and not from his homosexuality, but from the fact that he appears to be an incredible jerk. It’s a shame that he has been mistreated in his life, but hey, I have yet to meet a human being who has not. In that respect, his sob story is no different from anybody else’s, except for the fact that most people do not feel the need to persecute the rest of the world for their problems, and accept it as simply part of life. Vanilla: Please be clear on the fact that I apologized to you for one specific offense in which I was wrong. Don’t take it as a blanket admission of guilt or a plea for you to like me. I don’t appreciate at all your consistent mocking tone, and I find it ironic that you can make comments like this: > [@](#): > > Joe\_Cool and JerseyDiamond are so sanctimonious and condescending that I started to wonder last night if maybe…just maybe…they are really satanists, and by acting and posting so stupidly, are actually trying to make everyone hate their religion (suppodsedly chrsitianity). > > Pretty clever, if true. > If not, it seems to be working that way, doesn’t it? And only 3 posts later tell me to work on my humility. Now surely THAT is what you meant by humble, and an appropriate way to treat your fellow Christians. gobear: Neither Jerseydiamond nor I, in contrast to vanilla, has ever claimed to be a literal six-day young-earth creationist. I am certainly open to the possibility, but I am also an avid student of science. Once more, for the record, I do not think there is sufficient evidence to support either a literal creation in six days 6000 years ago or any of the current models of the universe’s origins, but I don’t think that it is by any means beyond God’s power for either to be true. I am absolutely freaking sick of your stupid claims that I have said this or that, when they are NOT TRUE. Such as your claim that I said all homosexuals hate themselves or whatever garbage that was. Quite a clever response to your lack of evidence: “It must have been lost in the last board crash, along with my response.” Are you on drugs, son? You’re so desperate to pin your persecution fantasies on me that you are willing to stoop to that level? Pathetic. Utterly pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/60 "2002-10-11T22:11:29Z")
Polycarp, I’m not ignoring your question. I just don’t have a good answer to it yet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732.md?page=4)