# Joe\_Cool, you are a liar and a bigot **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2002, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732 "2002-10-10T21:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/81 "2002-10-12T04:20:03Z")
And alice: Please. Do your part to make sure I don’t get away with my “lies.” Produce my post where I made these comments. Problem solved. Until you can do that, keep your accusations to yourself. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/82 "2002-10-12T04:32:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, no. You don’t get off that easy. I want an apology, pal. You made a totally unfounded and false accusation, argued it vehemently and insulted me when I denied it, and when finally forced to acknowledge that you pulled it out of your posterior, the best you can say is that you’ll withdraw the charge? I don’t think so No apology. Two other posters confirm they saw the exchange, so clearly, I didn’t make it up. I can’t prove it because I can’t find the relevant posts, so I’m withdrawing it. That’s as much as you get. > [@](#): > > make up a lie. > attribute lie to person I don’t like, demand apology. > entire discussion gets sidetracked into victim having to defend or refute statements that he did not ever make. > repeat as needed to demonize whoever is on my hit list today Oh, bull. You got called on your anti-Palestinian comments by several posters, and I cited your posts in the OP. Your definition of a lie is “somebody calling me on a comment I don’t want to admit to.” I note you don’t refute my cite or present any of your own to support your contention that Israeli Arabs receive equal rights. You are the one who is making this about gay issues. I’m busting you for your blatant bigotry and your casual use of rape as a metaphor. [quote] > [@](#): > > Since I’m sure you’re going to ask for an example, I’ll give you another one from THIS VERY THREAD! You claimed that Jerseydiamond and I are the enemies of science and insist that there was a literal six-day creation six thousand years ago. Neither of us has ever said that (though as I said before, I’m open to the possibility but don’t think there’s sufficient evidence to support any scientific description of the origins of the universe). Then I will absolutely and totally apologize for thinking you were a YEC. I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/83 "2002-10-12T04:37:55Z")
**Joe** , when the board crashes, as happens periodically, posts are **lost**. I don’t doubt that you don’t recall the exchange, but the fact that three other people remember it might be a clue that it happenned. The longer you hold up this pretence, the worse it is going to look when others acknowledge reading the exchange. It can’t be proven due to technical problems, but we remember what you said. I am giving a lot of benefit of the doubt by presuming you honestly don’t recall the exchange- don’t call those of us who read it liars, it makes it look as though you are taking advantage of the board’s technical glitch to further attack us. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/84 "2002-10-12T04:38:51Z")
I’ll make you a deal, **Joe**. If you attest right here that you regard gay people as good, regular folk and that you endorse full equal rights for gay people, including legal recognition of gay unions, I will make as humble, as abject, as totally submissive, an apology as you like. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/85 "2002-10-12T05:08:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grendel72 \* > \*\* **Joe** , when the board crashes, as happens periodically, posts are **lost**. > I don’t doubt that you don’t recall the exchange, but the fact that three other people remember it might be a clue that it happenned. The longer you hold up this pretence, the worse it is going to look when others acknowledge reading the exchange. > > It can’t be proven due to technical problems, but we remember what you said. I am giving a lot of benefit of the doubt by presuming you honestly don’t recall the exchange- don’t call those of us who read it liars, it makes it look as though you are taking advantage of the board’s technical glitch to further attack us. \*\* Do you remember when **Anahita** was libelously accused of being an anti-Semite, but the posts “proving” she was were “lost” then? A lot of people “remembered” her saying something, but in fact, _it was not true_. I know this because everyone except one person admitted they had mis-remembered something, and because I sat up late one night and read every. Single. Post. She had ever made since she joined the Board, and the words attributed to her _never appeared_. Ironically, that whole thread vanished in the Atrocity of Late January. But I remember _everything_ about it. Boy howdy, do I. Ev-er-y-thing. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/86 "2002-10-12T05:19:50Z")
grendel, I am not calling you a liar. I am telling you I never said such a thing. As strongly as I’ve tried to defend my own unpopular words, what makes you think I would shrink from defending that? I NEVER SAID ANY SUCH THING. If that makes you a liar, then so be it. I don’t care what you think you remember, I know my positions. I know well what happens when the board crashes, but I also know my own thoughts and that I never posted on that thread. As a matter of fact, I had never even read it until I found it when searching gobear’s posts this very afternoon. gobear, take your deal and put it someplace very uncomfortable. [sub]“What, like the back of a volkswagen?” Sorry, I know I’m supposed to be angry here, but I couldn’t help it. That’s one of my favorite movies.[/sub]. I will not play games with you. Either apologize because you are wrong, or get out of my face. You are just proving to us all that you don’t have the character to apologize even when proven wrong. I once before took your bait and answered your challenge to present my views on equal rights for gays, and yet you have selectively forgotten it, in order to make a big scene. You’ve shown me once again just what kind of a man you are. > [@](#): > > Oh, bull. You got called on your anti-Palestinian comments by several posters, and I cited your posts in the OP. Your definition of a lie is “somebody calling me on a comment I don’t want to admit to.” I note you don’t refute my cite or present any of your own to support your contention that Israeli Arabs receive equal rights. I’m not sure what you’re talking about here. I have loudly defended my Palestinian comments. Nowhere have I denied them or said that they were a lie. I’m talking about the actual lie you attribute to me. > [@](#): > > You are the one who is making this about gay issues. I’m busting you for your blatant bigotry and your casual use of rape as a metaphor. Another lie! You just won’t quit, will you? Read your 4th post to this thread (that’s the one immediately following where you called my fiancee “Eva Braun” [and by extension, called me hitler?]) : > [@](#): > > You also clearly missed the many lies Joe\_Cool has told about gay people, and his gross distortions of Biblical teachings. Lie upon lie upon lie. How in the world can you lie about something as easily verified as what you said in this very thread? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/87 "2002-10-12T05:20:48Z")
So, **Anthracite** are you saying that posts don’t get lost in board crashes. Moreover, the post that people remember \*\*Joe making were in the same thread that **Joe** himself references > [@](#): > > My lies about gay people? Let’s see…you first claim that gay people are downtrodden and oppressed, with no rights, then only days later posted again that gay people are happy, successful, and content. Which is it? But I’m the liar. All **Jor** has to do\*\* to elicit a full and abject apology from me is to repudiate the content of the “phantom post,” to wit A. Gay people are good, normal, regular folks B. He supports full rights for gay people, including legal marriage. If he does that, then I will back down on the gay issue and give him the most humble, abject apology he could ask for. (although I will still be on him about his racial bigotry.) ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/88 "2002-10-12T05:53:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > \*\*Lie upon lie upon lie. How in the world can you lie about something as easily verified as what you said in this very thread? \*\* Actually, I’m willing to retract that and give you the benefit of the doubt. In these high-voltage threads, it’s easy to lose track of who said what, but I would very much appreciate it if you would bother to verify what it is I said before you start railing about it. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/89 "2002-10-12T05:56:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Either apologize because you are wrong, or get out of my face. You are just proving to us all that you don’t have the character to apologize even when proven wrong. You haven’t proven me wrong, and I haven’t proven you wrong. Right now, it’s my word against yours. > [@](#): > > I once before took your bait and answered your challenge to present my views on equal rights for gays… OK, checking back in your previous posts, we find > [@](#): > > I have never denied my belief that gay sex is sin, so I’m not sure what you hoped to accomplish by quoting what you did. Watch, I’ll say it again: I believe that gay sex is sin. and > [@](#): > > So I agree that it’s not necessarily a choice, but that does not necessarily make it natural, nor does natural necessarily imply good. Frankly, I find that offensive, as offensive as you found my Eva Braun comment that I already apologized for, a fact you seem to have forgotten. But we also find this > [@](#): > > I personally don’t favor gay marriage, but that’s because I don’t accept civil government as having any business conducting marriages in the first place. I view marriage as from God, and under his authority. If the government wants to create an equivalent “civil union” or whatever, for people who don’t want a religious marriage, fine. Is that close enough for you? What difference is there between a marriage and a civil union? Marriage is not limited to Christians in America. Anybody, even atheists, can get married and have the same legal rights as you and \*\*Jersey\_Diamond—as long as they’re heterosexual. I don’t want some second-class “civil union” I want what you and your fiancee have–no more, no less. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure what you’re talking about here. I have loudly defended my Palestinian comments. Nowhere have I denied them or said that they were a lie. Well, first, you said this > [@](#): > > gobear, hasn’t the concept of race been pretty thoroughly debunked? How can you then call me a racist if there is no such thing as race? And I wasn’t aware that there was ever thought to be a “Palestinian” race, I thought it was just negroid, caucasoid, and mongoloid. You sure do seem to have a selective memory when it suits you. Which is just stunning in its paralogic. But to give you credit, you then reversed yourslef and took full credit. > [@](#): > > Yes I am anti-Palestinian. So, yes, I gotta admit you have come out in defense of your prejudice. > [@](#): > > Another lie! You just won’t quit, will you? Read your 4th post to this thread (that’s the one immediately following where you called my fiancee “Eva Braun” [and by extension, called me hitler?]) : Well, crap, you;'re right. It wasn’t you; it was **RexDart** (read the post before the one you cited where he brings up **H4E** and homosexuality. It was not you. I was wrong, and I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/90 "2002-10-12T05:58:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually, I’m willing to retract that and give you the benefit of the doubt. In these high-voltage threads, it’s easy to lose track of who said what, but I would very much appreciate it if you would bother to verify what it is I said before you start railing about it. Like I said, it wasn’t you who said it; it was **RexDart**. I apologize completely for the error. I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/91 "2002-10-12T06:03:46Z")
> [@](#): > > gobear, hasn’t the concept of race been pretty thoroughly debunked? How can you then call me a racist if there is no such thing as race? And I wasn’t aware that there was ever thought to be a “Palestinian” race, I thought it was just negroid, caucasoid, and mongoloid. You sure do seem to have a selective memory when it suits you. That was, I thought, very obviously sarcasm. Sorry I forgot to raise the flag for you. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/92 "2002-10-12T06:05:48Z")
If you say you meant it as sarcasm, I’ll accept your version. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/93 "2002-10-12T06:18:30Z")
Well, at that point, I was still trying to be entertained by this thread instead of angry. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/94 "2002-10-12T06:46:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*So, **Anthracite** are you saying that posts don’t get lost in board crashes. Moreover, the post that people remember **Joe making were in the same thread that Joe himself references** This is exactly what I’m saying: people forget, or mesh one person’s words on top of another. And I would not have said anything at all _if this had not happened before, and had not caused so much unneeded pain before_. Unfortunately, the Board crashed and lost the libelous thread in question, before the Administration could take the action that was absolutely mandated. If a person is that bad of a person, they must have plenty of other damning posts that still exist to prove such. And that’s all I’m saying. I don’t have a dog in this fight. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/95 "2002-10-12T07:07:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > \*\* > This is exactly what I’m saying: people forget, or mesh one person’s words on top of another. And I would not have said anything at all _if this had not happened before, and had not caused so much unneeded pain before_. Unfortunately, the Board crashed and lost the libelous thread in question, before the Administration could take the action that was absolutely mandated. > > If a person is that bad of a person, they must have plenty of other damning posts that still exist to prove such.\*\* I can see where you are coming from, but I also know what I read and I know that I am not mistaken. You want a damning post? how’s this: > [@](#): > > If you don’t want to be persecuted, maybe you should look at your own behavior. I think when people like you and kirkland get beaten up and persecuted, it’s not for being gay. More likely it’s for being an asshole. From [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=134607&perpage=50&pagenumber=3) thread. Note that this is speaking to people who have actually been physically abused based on the type of hate that **Joe** spews. Note that he has not appologised for this truly vile comment. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/96 "2002-10-12T07:13:12Z")
gobear, I just finished rereading the entire thread, and I realized that I got so worked up at the beginning that I forgot to comment on this: > [@](#): > > Suck the rancid, feculent, pus-filled maggots from a dead monkey’s shit-smeared ass, you disgusting pile of dog vomit! _That_ is your version of entering “the abyss”? HAH! That has to be the most pathetic curse, or whatever you choose to call it, that I’ve ever seen. Could’t you think of something better than that? I couldn’t help but laugh when I read it. I’m surprised you didn’t throw in “felch” or “squick” just to show me how you really mean business, and drive the point home. _sigh_ Please, try again. If my views riled you up enough to start a thread over it, then I would hope you considered it worthy of a proper oath. Sheesh. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/97 "2002-10-12T07:21:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grendel72 \* > \*\*You want a damning post? how’s this: > … > Note that this is speaking to people who have actually been physically abused based on the type of hate that **Joe** spews. Note that he has not appologised for this truly vile comment. \*\* Nor will I. In fact, thanks for reposting it. I think the sentiment bears repeating. When people act the way gobear, kirkland and mrvisible have, then complain about how horribly they’re treated, it’s a simple matter of Occam’s Razor: a) you’re getting beaten up because of your sexual preferences, because the whole world hates you (This would be reprehensible, and I would in no way support it, and would, in fact, come physically to your defense, no matter how much I dislike you as a person)… OR b) you’re getting beaten up because yu’re a vile jerk - an observation borne out by your behavior here. (and in this case I would have no pity for you. If you tease a dog and it bites you, then you dug your own hole. You have no right to pity when you ask for trouble). Now which is the simpler - and therefore more likely to be true - explanation? ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/98 "2002-10-12T07:26:38Z")
**Joe** , if it were true that vicious beatings were dispensed for **assholism** rather than because the assailants are bigoted idiots, I’m sure you would be as afraid to leave the house as I have been to hold my boyfriend’s hand in public. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/99 "2002-10-12T07:47:03Z")
I’m sure that’s the case, grendel. And coming from you it means that much more. \ ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/100 "2002-10-12T08:00:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Now which is the simpler - and therefore more likely to be true - explanation? You’re assuming that the person doing the beating is going to be reasonable and rational. Are you denying that there ARE a lot of unreasonable and irrational people out there, and some of them are true fag-hating homophobes? Personally, I find Scenario A to be much more likely. But then, I don’t have brothers and sisters (religiously speaking) that run around waving “God hates fags” signs (what is your opinion on those people, whom I consider very poor examples of humanity and Christianity, anyway?) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732.md?page=6)