# Joe\_Cool, you are a liar and a bigot **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2002, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732 "2002-10-10T21:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/161 "2002-10-13T08:29:30Z")
Of course I should point out that my statement applies only to regular people who have a basement or upstairs apartment in their houses…not to commercial renters such as multi-unit complexes. Only where a private home is concerned. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/162 "2002-10-13T14:04:15Z")
Thank you for responding **Joe**. In a way I can see your point about rooms to let, That is far different than opposing anti-discrimination laws as **H4E** does. In that thread, **H4E** was clearly talking about renting a home or apartment, not a room. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/163 "2002-10-13T19:03:43Z")
I too see your point, **Joe**. We used to own a double house, which we inherited from my parents and grandparents. Because it was an extended family, the rear entrance, the cellar, and the attic were shared between the two households, and there was no effective way, without more remodeling than we could afford, to make one half of the house secure from the other. When we went to place it for rental, you better believe we were **very** choosy about whom we felt comfortable having that kind of access to our home. As regards your earlier point to me, I think we disagree, but in a way that should arouse no ire between us. For me, I see Christians as having an **affirmative duty** to their Lord to act in behalf of those who are persecuted by others, including emphatically victims of bashing and other forms of discrimination. I can however see your stance as, if not what I’d consider moral, at least morally neutral. We are not all called to do everything that needs doing. **Gobear** , as _de facto_ spokesman for the “other side” vis-a-vis discrimination arguments, can you see **Joe’s** responses to my questions as acceptable if not ideal? If not, can you explain in measured terms (as opposed to Pit venting) why they are not. I feel like we’ve achieved a breakthrough in communicating and would like to continue exploring these topics together. ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/164 "2002-10-13T19:20:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > \*\*I don’t think anyone should be forced to rent to anyone they don’t want to rent to. > \*\* Just FYI, **H4E** ’s hypothetical involved a single-owner rental property. There are exemptions in the Fair Housing Act that allow you to discriminate against people when the rental property is either a room for sublet, or the other half of a duplex if you’re living in one half. So even if sexual orientation were added to the list of protected classes in the FHA, it would never force anyone to take a person whose lifestyle they don’t agree with under their own roof to live side by side. That’s as it should be, it is your house, after all. (BTW, you can discriminate, but you can’t _advertise_ discriminatory practices under that exception.) The FHA was designed only to making the market fair in commercial rental situations. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/165 "2002-10-13T20:39:05Z")
> [@](#): > > _Orignially posted by Polycarp_ > Gobear, as de facto spokesman for the “other side” vis-a-vis discrimination arguments, can you see Joe’s responses to my questions as acceptable if not ideal? Not really. **Gay Marriage** > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Joe\_Cool_ > HOWEVER, since homosexuality is specifically called a sin in the bible, and since a casual drunken marriage makes a mockery of the institution, a bible-believing church cannot sanction either one. Hence my advocation for a nonreligious civil state of union with all the legal benefits of marriage such as taxation, inheritance, and visitation. **Joe\_Cool** seems to think that only unions between Christians are called “marriages.” Maybe that’s what his church teaches, but the law doesn’t discriminate between the religious and the nonreligious. Legally, A union between two heterosexual atheists performed by a JP is every bit as much a marriage as a religious ceremony for the twiceborn, and that’s all I care about. I have no interest in a religious ceremony. I don’t want some back-of-the-bus “second class civil union”–I want the exact same legal rights that **Joe** and **Jersey Diamond** will receive, and those are not limited only to Christians, but they are limited, at the moment, to heterosexuals. Since **Joe** says he favors equal rights, and since the law does not limit marriage to unions between Christians, he should have no objection to gay marriage. Remember, it doesn’t have to be in a church to be called a marriage. **Housing** > [@](#): > > _Orginally posted by Joe\_Cool_ > I think it’s ok not to rent to somebody if you don’t like the shade of blue in the sky on the particular day they came to apply. If it’s my property, I’ll rent to and reject whoever I want. It’s already legal to refuse a tenant because of age, marital status, or having children, but you think being a homosexual should carry special protection? A. I’d like to see a cite about the law permitting discrimination by private renters. If the law allows **Joe** to deny housing on the basis of race or age, then I’ll accept that it’s OK to deny it to gay people. See, what **Joe** persistently fails to understand is that gay people do not want “special rights”; we want equal rights. Treat us as you would anyone else, no better and **no worse**. **Laughing at “Fag” Jokes** > [@](#): > > And finally, yes I laugh at gay jokes. I laugh at white jokes, black jokes, jew jokes, mexican jokes, italian jokes, polish jokes, American jokes, French jokes, the puerto rican day episode of Seinfeld, etc. I laugh at anything that is funny. If you can’t laugh at yourself, then you have a problem. And ditto that if you can’t handle somebody else telling or laughing at a joke that pokes fun at a group you happen to identify with. Are these jokes funny? (Warning: These are really vile) Why do black kids have flat noses? That’s where the doctor steps when he pulls off their tails. What’s the difference between a Jew and a pizza? A pizza doesn’t scream when you put it in an oven. What does “gay” stand for? Got Aids Yet? Sure, I can laugh at myself and I can take kidding about gayness. But I also have the sense to tell the difference between humor and hate. If anyone told antiblack or anti-Jewish “jokes” in my presence, they’d get a prompt scolding in very blunt terms, even though I am neither black nor Jewish, 'cos bigotry is never funny. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/166 "2002-10-13T21:13:36Z")
Oh, and there’s a side-issue > [@](#): > > There’s this piece of paper, grendel, that some of us think is pretty neat…it’s called the Constitution. Evidently you weren’t aware of it, but in this country, people have the right to hold whatever opinions and take whatever political positions they like, even if those positions and opinions don’t have the grendel stamp of approval. That is called freedom of expression (or speech). > > Shouting her down with hate filled insults is in direct violation of that principle, as you are denying her right to expression. And stripping her of her rights effectively strips her of her value as a human being. (“To strip of value” hmm…where have I heard that phrase before? must be something I read) You do not know what you are talking about. The First Amendment limits the powers of **the government** to limit speech. It in no way refers to dealing between private individuals. Saying “Shut up” to you might be terribly rude, but it is NOT a violation of the First Amendment. Read some books on the Constitution and the Supreme Court’s history of enforcement. **A People’s History of the Supreme Court** , Peter Irons **The Courage of Their Convictions** , also by Peter Irons **The Bill of Rights: A user’s Guide** , Linda R. Monk ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/167 "2002-10-13T21:27:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\* > Are these jokes funny? (Warning: These are really vile) > > \*\* no, but not merely because they are about particular groups, but because they are also vicious slams against those groups. I have a fabulous joke, tho: A Jew, a German and an Italian were stranded in the desert with nothing. The Italian says: “Oh, I’m so hungry, I’m so thirsty, I must have some wine!” The German says: “Oh, I’m so hungry, I’m so thirsty, I must have some beer!” The Jew says: “Oh, I’m so hungry, I’m so thirsty, I must have diabetes!” Was that offensive? Cuz if it was, you better clue all my jewish friends, who think it’s utterly hilarious. Stoid exploiting the opportunity to tell her current favorite joke ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/168 "2002-10-13T21:43:36Z")
Nah, that’s not offensive because, as you said, it’s not a vicious slam against Jews. Laughing at a particular group’s traits isn’t necessarily offensive. What I find offensive, and I suspect I’m alone in this, are jokes where humor is based on the supposed inferiority/filth/immorality of a specific ethnic or religious group. I grant you, the dividing line between funny and offensive can be highly subjective and exceedingly thin, but there is a difference between mocking the foibles of a group and laughing at them because they’re so stupid/greedy/dirty/lazy/immoral, etc. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/169 "2002-10-13T22:30:35Z")
Nah, that’s not offensive because, as you said, it’s not a vicious slam against Jews. Laughing at a particular group’s traits isn’t necessarily offensive. What I find offensive, and I suspect I’m alone in this, are jokes where humor is based on the supposed inferiority/filth/immorality of a specific ethnic or religious group. I grant you, the dividing line between funny and offensive can be highly subjective and exceedingly thin, but there is a difference between mocking the foibles of a group and laughing at them because they’re so stupid/greedy/dirty/lazy/immoral, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/170 "2002-10-14T01:10:55Z")
First. Actually gobear, I didn’t think your jokes were funny, not only because they’re vicious slams (oven? that’s sick), but because they’re just not funny. Don’t quit your day job. Second. I’m quite familiar with the Bill of Rights, as you’d know if you bothered to read any of my posts outside the context of your gay inquisition. You’ll notice I didn’t say that there was a violation of law, but principle. I believe I’ve seen you speak in defense of Freedom of Speech before, but it’s funny how you resort to insults and shout-downs as soon as the speech in question doesn’t agree with your views. And please, once again, at least read what you quote! > [@](#): > > Shouting her down with hate filled insults **is in direct violation of that principle** , as you are denying her right to expression. Third. None of my statements aside from the above First Amendment one are based on law, they are my opinions. Last time I checked, I didn’t need a cite to have an opinion. Or has that changed? And finally… I’m getting really tired of repeating myself. READ IT BEFORE YOU COMMENT ON IT! > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > HOWEVER, since homosexuality is specifically called a sin in the bible, and since a casual drunken marriage makes a mockery of the institution, a bible-believing church cannot sanction either one. Hence my advocation for a nonreligious civil state of union **with all the legal benefits of marriage** such as taxation, inheritance, and visitation. If you don’t buy that, I guess it’s just too bad. I’ve clarified my positions just about as much as can be done, and that’s all you get. If you still don’t agree…well… hard times, dude. I’m not going to change what I believe to appease you, and I’m not going to run scared under the threat of more pit threads (though if you do start another one, PLEASE at least give me a good cursing out. that one about maggots and monkeys’ asses was pretty gay. 😃 [intentionally ironic statement based on the content of the thread thus far. \]) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/171 "2002-10-14T01:35:25Z")
Um, we were telling jokes like that at the last Pittsburgh Dopefest (I think someone told the pizza one), but I don’t think we were laughing at the jokes per se. It was more of a contest to see who could come up with the most offensive joke, and say, “Oh, that’s REALLY bad!” And laugh at how BAD they were. However, **Joe** , **His4ever** popped into several threads to tell people they were blaspheming and that they were under the influence of the “Evil One”. That’s pretty bad in my book. Or her, “This new Chick tract is really great, but you people just don’t get it.” Or the whole, “why is everyone picking one me!!!” And her laughable attempts to prove that Catholics worship saints and that Mormons do this or whatever it was. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/172 "2002-10-14T02:19:25Z")
Guinastasia, people do blaspheme on this board, and quite often. So I don’t see how you can call that condemnation. It’s more like observation. People under the influence of the evil one? A little harsher and less savory statement than the previous one, but still, can you say that it’s untrue? I still don’t know if I’d call it condemnatory. And I have my own complaints about the Roman Catholic Church. It does not exactly have a squeaky clean history, so let’s not get started on that one. At least His4ever has never burned anyone at the stake, to my knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/173 "2002-10-14T02:34:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Um, we were telling jokes like that at the last Pittsburgh Dopefest (I think someone told the pizza one), but I don’t think we were laughing at the jokes per se. It was more of a contest to see who could come up with the most offensive joke, and say, “Oh, that’s REALLY bad!” And laugh at how BAD they were. > \*\* That was me. I admit it. And yes, the “pizza” joke was told, among others. I only tell those jokes because they’re so awful, not because I believe what they say. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/174 "2002-10-14T03:02:00Z")
Joe, the fact that Catholics burned people at the stake oh so many hundreds of years ago has nothing jackshit nothing to do with the fact that we ain’t worshipping any saint. Or anything else this century. What kind of arguement is that? We don’t worship saints. Oh yeah? Well, your church leaders burned people at the stake hundreds of years before any of us were born! And Catholics sure as anything weren’t the only Christian sect using torture and execution against dissidents. All religious have sinned ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/175 "2002-10-14T04:19:18Z")
Ok. The catholic church celebrates the mass as a continual sacrifice of Jesus, through the “miracle” of Transubstantiation - in which the bread and wine are believed to become the actual, literal body and blood of Jesus Christ - for the remission of sins. Whereas Jesus’s sacrifice was complete and sufficient for all time. He himself said “It is finished.” (John 19:30) “For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.” (Romans 6:9-10). Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself." (Hebrews 7:27) “He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.” (Hebrews 9:12) “But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.” (Hebrews 9:26) “And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” (Hebrews 10:10) “For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit…” (1 Peter 3:18) (That’s a good one, right? The so-called “First Pope” denying the continual sacrifice of the Mass?) Is that better? ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/176 "2002-10-14T04:24:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\* > **Housing** > > A. I’d like to see a cite about the law permitting discrimination by private renters. If the law allows **Joe** to deny housing on the basis of race or age, then I’ll accept that it’s OK to deny it to gay people. See, what **Joe** persistently fails to understand is that gay people do not want “special rights”; we want equal rights. Treat us as you would anyone else, no better and **no worse**. > > \*\* Here’s the link: [http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/housing/title8.htm](http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/housing/title8.htm) See Section 803(b)(1) and 803(b)(2). That exempts people such as the duplex owner or room renter who dwells in the house, and people renting no more than three single-family homes. You will see they are exempted from everything _except_ the 804© advertising provision, and the renter who dwells in the property himself is exempted even from the advertising provision. Those people can, for strong policy reasons, continue to discriminate against the protected classes of the FHA. People have a pretty strong privacy interest in their own place of residence, and the legislature concluded that people should be able to discriminate in those situations. Additionally, those renters are unlikely to have enough to do with interstate commerce to bring the law under the scope of the commerce clause, and thus it would otherwise be unconstitutional on that basis. Since those renters seem to comprise a small proportion of the overall housing market, equal opportunity housing is still achieved. Later development of disparate impact theory, such that intentional discrimination need not be proven so long as one can demonstrate that a housing policy disparately impacts the opportunities of a protected class to attain housing, has allowed the FHA to succeed in its goal despite the exemptions. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/177 "2002-10-14T04:33:37Z")
Despite your characterization of **H4e** ’s postion above, **Rex** , I don’t believe she really wants to limit the anti-discrimination principle to homes/duplexes where the landlord is also living. Observe: > [@](#): > > He or she considers that he or she is responsible to God for what goes on in their homes **or homes that they own.** Therefore this person would consider it wrong to rent to homosexuals or any couple that was not married, for that matter. Nor should they be forced to do so. It would be their property and they shouldn’t have to do something that deliberately violates their beliefs of right and wrong. (emphasis added). ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/178 "2002-10-14T04:34:43Z")
BTW, **Joe\_Cool** , the RCC does not accept the false dichotomy between “symbolism” and the “Real Presence” in the sacrament of the Eucharist. Your point only makes sense if it must be either symbolic (in which case the RCC is wrong) or real (in which case it’s a continuing sacrifice.) This is not the case. Check any of the links on this page: [http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ11.HTM](http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ11.HTM) Your point about the allegedly “continuing sacrifice” is a common point made by protestants. There must be a book out there that protestants are all reading that contains these objections, which they learn by rote. Read some of the defenses at that website. In short, the Church argues that the Eucharist is both real and symbolic, in that the actual blood/body is present _and_ that this sacrament is done in remembrance of the one sacrifice. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/179 "2002-10-14T05:06:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > **Despite your characterization of H4e’s postion above, Rex, I don’t believe she really wants to limit the anti-discrimination principle to homes/duplexes where the landlord is also living.** First of all, I don’t see where she explicitly included commercial property, or that it is even implied. Can you do better than that? Anyway, 803(b) explicitly exempts private owners as long as “ **such private individual owner does not own more than three such single-family houses at any one time.** ” Which means that anybody with UP TO three single-family homes is ok under the exemption. Since the portion of H4e’s post you disagree with is the plurality of homes rented, it appears that the law is on her side, and your case is pretty weak. Barring further evidence, of course… ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732/180 "2002-10-14T10:58:20Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m quite familiar with the Bill of Rights, as you’d know if you bothered to read any of my posts outside the context of your gay inquisition. You’ll notice I didn’t say that there was a violation of law, but principle. I believe I’ve seen you speak in defense of Freedom of Speech before, but it’s funny how you resort to insults and shout-downs as soon as the speech in question doesn’t agree with your views. And please, once again, at least read what you quote! I did read it; you just don’t understand the the concept of freedom of speech" (and are pigheadedly stubborn, to boot). I reapeat disagreement is not a violation of the principle, the intent, or the spirit of the First Amendment. You have the right to speak; you do not have the right to speak unopposed, nor do I, nor does anyone. **Joe Cool** : Homosex is sinful! **Gobear** : You are totally full of crap. **Joe Cool** : Waaah, Gobear’s violating the First Amendment and suppressing my freedom of speech! \ “Violating the principle” my Aunt Agatha! > [@](#): > > If you don’t buy that, I guess it’s just too bad. I’ve clarified my positions just about as much as can be done, and that’s all you get. If you still don’t agree…well… hard times, dude. Then you support gay marriage. Remmber, in this country, mariage is not limited to Protestants. Do you call a mariage between Jews or atheists, or , heavens to Betsy, CATHOLICS!!!, as somehow inferior to your own? Are they mere “civil unions”? If you regard their marriages as valid as your own, if only in the lagal sense, then you can have no objection ot gay marriage and you can stop this “civil union” crap. In re jokes, a pack of wise-ass Dopers trying to gross each other out is not even in the same ballpark as some yahoo saying, “Heard the latest fag joke?” and you guys all know it. Thank you for the housing cite, **RexDart**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joe_cool-you-are-a-liar-and-a-bigot/131732.md?page=10)