# Joel Stein and the Cauldron of Mediocrity (a Harry Potter related pitting... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 12, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248 "2005-07-12T23:46:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/1 "2005-07-12T23:46:47Z")
This is over [this](http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-op-stein10jul10,0,200087.column?coll=la-util-op-ed) article of his, entitled **Hogwarts fans, you’re stupid, stupid, stupid** At first I thought it would be tongue in cheek, but nope. Stein, widely known as the most cerebral columnist ever to appear on [101 Most Starlicious Makeovers](http://imdb.com/title/tt0415467/), blasts adult Potter fans as lame, pathetic losers who want to Sit’n’Spin again. > [@Stein](#): > > I don’t want you to tell me how well J.K. Rowling writes, or that academics are writing papers about it, or that Harry Potter can be read on many levels. “Clifford the Big Red Dog” can be read on many levels too: One, he’s a big red dog; two, if you read it after you’re 4, you’re a moron. > [@](#): > > When we share our entertainment palette with the Wiggles set — watching comic book movies and teenage singing talent shows — we deny an attempt to understand human emotion… The story is stupid if you’re over 13. Who the fuck died and appointed Joel Stein “Somebody Whose Opinion Remotely Matters to Anyone”? What difference does it make to him if I spend my leisure time with Thucydides or Teletubbies? I know a survivor of the Rwandan genocide, a soldier in Iraq and numerous highly responsible tax and mortgage paying parents who are eagerly awaiting _Half Blood Prince_ and I resent like hell this shill for **E!** commenting on anybody’s intellect. Stein, baby… I’m looking at the future of entertainment (the medium, not the channel) and I just ain’t seeing you in it… hmmm. Could it be that you’re just a bitter widdle mediocrity who “hates all creative people equally”? Sick him. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/2 "2005-07-13T00:07:13Z")
Two things. 1. I want to send a Dementor Joel’s way. and 1. I want to see the Teletubbies do Thucidides. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/3 "2005-07-13T00:07:18Z")
I always wonder why people think that having more “highbrow” tastes says anything about their characters. I’m not a better person for liking opera, for example. I just have a lot of patience for people hollering at me in foreign languages. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/4 "2005-07-13T00:26:02Z")
> [@me in \[this](#): > > ([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=325228](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=325228)) thread] That Joel Stein fellow is a douchebag attempting to get publicity by taking a wildly unpopular and ignorant view just like the tools who rip Lance Armstrong a new one when he wins a Tour since biking “isn’t a real sport.” :rolleyes: DNFTT. ---
**Author:** ![EleventyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@EleventyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EleventyOne)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/5 "2005-07-13T00:29:59Z")
I could only think of one thing while reading that column: DNFTT. There’s only one reason to bash something both as popular and innocuous as the Harry Potter books and that is, you want attention. Bet this is his most read column in eons, as 50,000 people are linking to message boards and LJs and in emails saying “Can you b’leeve this guy?” ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/6 "2005-07-13T00:56:59Z")
I like what I like. I think that Shakespeare’s _Taming of the Shrew_ is hysterical and I think that Reverend Bubba Flavel and Coach Baubricker reading from Shakespeare’s _Taming of the Shrew_ in _Porky’s 2_ is hysterical. But Potter I’ll totally defend as in addition to having kid’s book elements it makes use of 1- very clever wordplay (the Latin names for curses, character’s names, etc.) 2- classic mythological elements (the foundling, the old mentor, the curse, etc.) 3- fun literary allusions (it has a descendant of Cerberus named “Fluffy” for Og’s sake!) 4- continuing and complicated plot threads etc. Plus, it’s just fun and imaginative and an enjoyable read. And it’s cool as hell to see people treating a book release with as much anticipation as a major summer blockbuster movie opening- that just doesn’t happen. (There was a lot of broohaha when Rice’s _Memnock the Devil_ was released but that was the last pre-Potter I can remember generating this kind of excitement.) I agree that Stein is trolling for publicity, but in his particular line of work the “no publicity is bad publicity” is **not** true. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/7 "2005-07-13T01:16:31Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Plus, it’s just fun and imaginative and an enjoyable read. And it’s cool as hell to see people treating a book release with as much anticipation as a major summer blockbuster movie opening- that just doesn’t happen. Oh, I absolutely agree with that. I think Rowling is talented and the books might not go down as _the_ classics in the children’s fantasy field but they’ll stand the test of time. And the excitement is really fun. I wonder how overcome I would be if I were a kid. It’d be like Christmas. Heck, it’s like Christmas now! ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/8 "2005-07-13T01:27:26Z")
Wow. He really is a complete and utter ass. He seems to be proud of the fact that he can’t just sit down and enjoy himself with either a good book, good video game, good comic book, or fluffy but good movie. Good for him, I guess. I never knew that being a grown up meant that you had to have a massive and spikey stick rammed up your ass. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/9 "2005-07-13T01:30:19Z")
Oh, heavens, I’m one score and four years! I shall scamper off and read \, since I am one score and four years of age! And I shall swill brandy as I do so! Huzzah for my maturity! Please join me in my self congratulation as I coldly and arrogantly stare down those Potterites for daring to read something _fun_ on occasion! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/10 "2005-07-13T01:30:38Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > I never knew that being a grown up meant that you had to have a massive and spikey stick rammed up your ass. 😕 Damn it, why do I _never_ get the memos? That Peter Pan guy is looking smarter every second. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/11 "2005-07-13T01:39:09Z")
Eh, sure. He’s a dick, yadda yadda yadda. But . . . Look, I like Harry. I like it a lot. It’s a fun series, well-executed. But it ain’t all that. I’m a total geek, so I tend to be among those who appreciate F&SF kidlit more than most mundanes, and I can think of several kiddie lit fantasy series which are comparable if not better. To a mundane, who’s less enamored of fantasy in general, I can see completely how the story appears juvenile and silly. I’m glad Jo’s made a mint, and I’ll certainly keep the HP series on shelf, but it is far from the be-all and end-all that some people seem to think it. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/12 "2005-07-13T01:48:00Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I’m glad Jo’s made a mint, and I’ll certainly keep the HP series on shelf, but it is far from the be-all and end-all that some people seem to think it. Granted, and I can totally understand it not being to everybody’s liking. I’ve expressed on these boards before how I’m sometimes irritated that I just can’t see in Tolkien what others seem to; however, I don’t assume that Tolkien fans are idiots who can’t exist in the real world, just that tastes differ. That’s my problem with Stein: a man whose main exposure comes from the fluffiest channel on cable is _weighing and finding wanting_ not just the taste but the minds of those who disagree with him. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/13 "2005-07-13T02:35:32Z")
Joel Stein was an ass long before he wrote this plea for attention. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/14 "2005-07-13T03:09:20Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Look, I like Harry. I like it a lot. It’s a fun series, well-executed. But it ain’t all that. I’m a total geek, so I tend to be among those who appreciate F&SF kidlit more than most mundanes, and I can think of several kiddie lit fantasy series which are comparable if not better. To a mundane, who’s less enamored of fantasy in general, I can see completely how the story appears juvenile and silly. > > I’m glad Jo’s made a mint, and I’ll certainly keep the HP series on shelf, but it is far from the be-all and end-all that some people seem to think it. Yo A-Dawg. I gots no problems wit peeps who be hatin’ on the H-PO. Y’know what I’m sayin? What I have a problem with is that Joel Stein thinks that because people read the Harry Potter books, go to see Finding Nemo, play video games, or read comic books are a)in some sort of pathetic extended childhood, b) morons, and c) somehow missing out on something because their tastes do not match up with the highbrow intellectual set of whom Joel Stein is a member (somehow 😕 ) Basically, I don’t give a flying fuck that Joel Stein dislikes the Harry Potter books. What pisses me off is that Smarty the Superturd wants to look down his nose at people who do. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/15 "2005-07-13T03:11:23Z")
Look, the long and the short of it is that bitch made a fucking billion dollars writing a series and I’ve still not completed my novel much less gotten it published. I hate her. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/16 "2005-07-13T03:41:33Z")
> [@](#): > > DNFTT. ? Can we request the Teletubbies do a Harry Potter book? Please! ---
**Author:** ![Tentacle\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba9def/32.png) [@Tentacle\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tentacle_Monster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/17 "2005-07-13T03:50:59Z")
This guy seems like the John C. Dvorak of the entertainment world, only worse. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/18 "2005-07-13T03:54:03Z")
URRGHH! I cannot STAND Joel Stein! All he is is Jay Sherman in live action. “It stinks! It stinks! It stinks!” No analysis, no perspective, just “It stinks!” He’s that guy in college who would invite himself when people were watching a video, [del]bogart the pipe[/del] eat all the potato chips, and periodically grumble, “I don’t know why I’m watching this.” And I agree that HP is not the end-all, be-all. But Stein is **always** like this. And denigrating the buying/viewing/reading public is not new with him either. Who the fuck keeps publishing him, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/19 "2005-07-13T03:54:34Z")
> [@Shirley Ujest](#): > > ? **D** o **N** ot **F** eed **T** he **T** rolls which I know only because I looked it up when I saw it in this thread ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248/20 "2005-07-13T03:57:21Z")
I’m in the position of a parent who has read the series to my son, and enjoyed having done so greatly… and of having to suffer the discussion of a co-worker and chronological adult who is exceptionally enamored with the series. I agree with **andros** , and also in part with Joel Stein. The books have been fun to read, and the premise is inventive, but the writing and construction is really pretty much just crap, and having to listen to adults claim that the books are well written or worthy of discussion or analysis is quite grating. It’s children’s literature. I like Scooby Doo too, but I’m not going to bend your ear about the themes and subtext of Scooby Doo. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joel-stein-and-the-cauldron-of-mediocrity-a-harry-potter-related-pitting/312248.md?page=2)