# Joelle Lockwood rescued 2 months after abduction living in a cage. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 8, 2014, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832 "2014-09-08T05:37:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lorene89095](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@Lorene89095](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorene89095)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/41 "2014-09-09T15:56:27Z")
I’m glad she was rescued however it happened. I hope she gets the treatment she needs. The guy is a hero in my book. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/42 "2014-09-09T17:01:35Z")
> [@Enigma42](#): > > In a perfect world, the police force would of course be the ideal people to handle the situation. But it’s not a perfect world, and recent events here in the U.S. have lead many people to view the police with a high degree of skepticism. > > What if a SWAT team and mobile command center rolled up to these folks house, leading to a siege situation with at-risk hostage? Would the couple have surrendered? Would they have killed their hostage and themselves? Would they have engaged in a shoot-out with the police in which several officers were killed in addition to the hostage and the kidnappers? That may sound like a ridiculous extrapolation. But until recently, most people here would have thought it was ridiculous to imagine police officers wearing combat gear, in armored vehicles, explicitly threatening to arrest journalists and even shoot unarmed citizens for being involved in peaceful protests. > > Everyone’s personal experience with the police will vary. Now in a situation such as this, I imagine **I** would have tried to call 911 at my first opportunity. However, I’m a middle-class caucasian male from the suburbs in the mid-west and even I have had a few experiences in dealing with law enforcement that make me hesitant to call on them. And who knows what Higgs’ past experience with LE has been? And can we be so absolutely sure that it would have lead to a better outcome? > > It sounds like this was the best possible outcome to the existing situation already. No further harm to the hostage, no harm to the ‘negotiator’, and the kidnappers in custody. Sometimes the best person to handle a situation is the one who is already in place and who is most familiar with the details. You’re comparing the worst possible case of authority intervention with the best possible case of amateur intervention. It’s great that the best caee of the latter happened to play out here, but there are a whole bunch of 'what if’s there too. What if the male captor just pulled the trigger? What if he shot the rescuer and rescuee in the back as they walked away? Etc. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/43 "2014-09-09T18:53:33Z")
If they called the cops, they might have shot the innocent guy or the hostage. Maybe they would mistake her collar for a weapon. There are a lot of people here who worship authority and also put down everyone who isn’t a high IQ white woman. But other people (even clean cut white guys with high IQs) experience mistreatment and police ineptitude through no fault of their own. There have been people shot by police or abused/arrested when they call for help as victims- like being arrested for robbing your own house or being harassed, searched, arrested when you are the victim. So of course people don’t want to get cops involved when they don’t have to. Heck, some of the very best “Never Talk to Cops” stuff is produced by very clean cut educated white dudes who just know better. It’s not just criminals and lower-class people who know the deal. Maybe in England and other countries cops are rational and don’t go looking to roll army tanks down the street and burn and shoot dogs, but in many parts of the U.S. they are bumbling idiots who think of law enforcement professionalism as using Steven Seagal to bust cockfights. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/44 "2014-09-09T18:59:11Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > You’re comparing the worst possible case of authority intervention with the best possible case of amateur intervention. It’s great that the best caee of the latter happened to play out here, but there are a whole bunch of 'what if’s there too. What if the male captor just pulled the trigger? What if he shot the rescuer and rescuee in the back as they walked away? Etc. My mother always played the “What if?” game with me. “What if this happened?” “What if that happened?” My answer to her: “What if it didn’t?” ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/45 "2014-09-09T21:14:03Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > If they called the cops, they might have shot the innocent guy or the hostage. Maybe they would mistake her collar for a weapon. Sure, and any number of similar ‘maybe’ scenarios can be imagined for the amateur DIY intervention; maybe the crazy couple could have locked the would-be-rescuer in the cage too; maybe they could have cooked him and eaten his liver, etc. I mean, they _didn’t_, but maybe they could have. > [@](#): > > There are a lot of people here who worship authority and also put down everyone who isn’t a high IQ white woman. But other people (even clean cut white guys with high IQs) experience mistreatment and police ineptitude through no fault of their own. There have been people shot by police or abused/arrested when they call for help as victims- like being arrested for robbing your own house or being harassed, searched, arrested when you are the victim. So of course people don’t want to get cops involved when they don’t have to. Heck, some of the very best “Never Talk to Cops” stuff is produced by very clean cut educated white dudes who just know better. It’s not just criminals and lower-class people who know the deal. You’re making it sound like you would be better off completely without a police force at all. Do you really think that the _most likely outcome_ from calling the police, in this scenario, is that they would blunder in and completely fuck it up? That they would maybe even do that on purpose? > [@](#): > > Maybe in England and other countries cops are rational and don’t go looking to roll army tanks down the street and burn and shoot dogs, but in many parts of the U.S. they are bumbling idiots who think of law enforcement professionalism as using Steven Seagal to bust cockfights. I’m not going to argue that our police force is perfect or infallible - they have proven themselves capable of terrible error in the past, but in the overwhelming majority of cases, they do it right; that fact does not excuse the errors - it just means that in an armed kidnap situation, calling the police is the best and most sensible plan; it’s the course of action most likely to result in a positive outcome (nothing is ever guaranteed, of course) ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/46 "2014-09-09T21:35:57Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > There are a lot of people here who worship authority and also put down everyone who isn’t a high IQ white woman. But other people (even clean cut white guys with high IQs) experience mistreatment and police ineptitude through no fault of their own. This is, hands down, the dumbest thing I’ve read all week - and it’s been a really banner month for dumb! It takes a lot effort to rank in this field. Very impressive! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/47 "2014-09-10T16:17:33Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If you’ve never noticed, this board is pretty touchy and awfully argumentative. (And I wouldn’t have it any other way.) I’m deeply offended by such an obvious mischaracterization. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/48 "2014-09-10T16:22:29Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > For me it has nothing to do with parade raining and everything to do with “WTF?!” > > When I read the story I just genuinely could not get my head around the idea of finding a kidnapped girl, going away, having about a day to think about it and then deciding the best course is to go in there and effect a citizen’s rescue from an armed person. Not calling the police just wouldn’t even come close to happening if it were me. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > When he went home? He left and thought about the situation and apparently finally realized something wasn’t quite right, so he returned. Instead of waiting a whole day and returning, he could have called the police. > [@Mangetout](#): > > Or some shortish time after they said “We’ve got a girl in a cage back here” - make an excuse (“Hey, that reminds me, I forgot to get bird seed!”), leave the premises, call the cops. All three of these posts are a display of ignorance. Did any of you actually read any of the linked articles? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/49 "2014-09-10T17:10:32Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > All three of these posts are a display of ignorance. Did any of you actually read any of the linked articles? I did. What is it in particular you think I got wrong? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/50 "2014-09-11T06:35:33Z")
I’ve generally had pretty good experiences with cops - But one thing I can say for sure, there is no way in hell I’m going to call them up and report my ex-wife (who it seems I’m still friends with) for kidnapping and sex slavery unless I’m damn fucking sure of what’s going on. And it seems that this is what happened here - he saw the girl on Thursday, and for whatever reason didn’t recognise it for what it was (which I can believe - if my sister showed me a sex slave that she had kidnapped, the cognitive dissonance would be overwhelming). Went back on Friday and realised the situation for what it was then immediately got the girl out of there. Maybe with the intellect of a doper he could have handled the situation better - but it all sounds rather plausible to me. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/51 "2014-09-11T07:30:12Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > And it seems that this is what happened here - he saw the girl on Thursday, and for whatever reason didn’t recognise it for what it was (which I can believe - if my sister showed me a sex slave that she had kidnapped, the cognitive dissonance would be overwhelming). Went back on Friday and realised the situation for what it was then immediately got the girl out of there. That’s not how I read the account - and the difference may also be the reason for **Snowboarder Bo** ’s comment above. The way I read it is: [ul] [li]Went there on Thursday, found out they had a girl in a cage.[/li][li][Higgs says, at first, he didn’t understand what was going on.](http://www.14news.com/story/26469763/missing-evansville-mother-of-two-held-captive-since-july-9) - but note, ‘At first’ only means ‘at first’ - it **doesn’t** mean he continued not knowing what was going on until Friday evening, because:[/li][li]Higgs says he spent **most of Friday** thinking of ways to try to free Joelle.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/52 "2014-09-11T08:53:49Z")
Apparently, the timeline was muddled in earlier reports of this story. They reported that Higgs saw Lockwood at his ex-wife’s house on Thursday, Sept. 4, then returned to rescue her on Friday, Sept. 5. According to newer reports, the rescue took place on Saturday, Sept. 6. [http://fox59.com/2014/09/07/arrests-made-in-connection-to-missing-person-investigation-in-evansville/](http://fox59.com/2014/09/07/arrests-made-in-connection-to-missing-person-investigation-in-evansville/) > [@](#): > > A friend of House’s, Ronald Higgs, came to the trailer on Sept. 4, and and again on Sept. 5. Lockwood confided in him that she’d been held against her will and asked him to help. On Sept. 6 he came to get her out, sparking a confrontation with House in which House threatened Higgs with a sawed-off shotgun. Higgs fought him off and the pair escaped the mobile home, according to court documents. So, it appears **Mangetout** is correct. Higgs spent the better part of a day planning a course of action when a prudent person might have contacted the police. He didn’t immediately rescue Lockwood when she begged him to rescue her, but had at least 24 hours in which to notify authorities. The fact he was able to rescue her without any injuries or deaths owes more to plain random luck than to any well though-out course of action. What Higgs did was indisputably brave, but also foolhardy in hindsight. It goes to show that events as initially reported aren’t what they seem after all of the facts come out. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/53 "2014-09-11T09:42:33Z")
Thanks, but that timeline (Except the Saturday 6th bit, maybe) was already in the articles linked in this thread since the start of the thread - that’s precisely why I ever started saying the things I said in this thread - I even mentioned the timeline in post #4. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/54 "2014-09-11T12:25:40Z")
Higgs said he spent most of Friday thinking of a plan to rescue Joelle, but he also said he just discovered on Friday night that she needed to be rescued. So it doesn’t make sense that he thought of a plan to rescue her when he didn’t know she needed to be rescued. And all of the earlier stories indicated that he rescued her on Friday when it was actually Saturday. So the only explanation that makes any sense is that Higgs found out Joelle was being held prisoner on Friday night. Now, he could have started thinking of a rescue plan when he left the house on Friday night, but that wasn’t most of the day. He didn’t return to the trailer and rescue Joelle until Saturday night. And since none of the earlier stories mentioned the rescue took place Saturday night, I wouldn’t trust anything else they say. I won’t dispute that Higgs might have better spent the time calling 911, but he didn’t know something was wrong on Thursday and spend Friday thinking up a rescue plan. He found out a crime was possibly being committed on Friday night and spent most of Saturday working out a plan. We’re in basic agreement that Higgs could have left things to the police, but now we’re just picking over nits arguing about the day. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/55 "2014-09-11T12:52:12Z")
The interpretation that makes most sense to me is: He found out about the girl on Thursday evening. At some point on Friday, he realised action was required, and spent a while that day thinking about how he would do it Late Friday, he went to try to rescue her, but for some reason it didn’t happen On Saturday, he went back again, the confrontation happened, and she left with him. Or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/56 "2014-09-11T13:23:49Z")
I think we’re all forgetting that one of Jeffrey Dahmer’s victims was returned to him by the police as he begged them for help. The police are not perfect, and if he himself questioned whether the situation was consensual, it makes sense that they might do the same. Furthermore, I’m betting that calling the cops knowing it would put his ex behind bars was pretty difficult for him to do. He may have known that the victim would do so, but doing it himself was a different matter. In corrupt jurisdictions and among the poverty-stricken, calling the cops is not expected to bring relief in any form to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/57 "2014-09-11T13:36:23Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I think we’re all forgetting that one of Jeffrey Dahmer’s victims was returned to him by the police as he begged them for help. The police are not perfect, and if he himself questioned whether the situation was consensual, it makes sense that they might do the same. No, we’re not forgetting that. Nobody imagines the police to be perfect, or has claimed anything like that. I’m saying that the police _ought to be a safer bet than amateur intervention_. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/58 "2014-09-11T14:03:01Z")
Oh God. I can’t watch the restf this, but maybe you all are curious enough to do so. This page has the 2-part extended interview with Ron Higgs, the man who saved her: [http://www.tristatehomepage.com/story/d/story/eyewitness-news-alex-mcbeath-talks-with-the-man-wh/12400/I36f5nXgDESOzk9JNpSurQ](http://www.tristatehomepage.com/story/d/story/eyewitness-news-alex-mcbeath-talks-with-the-man-wh/12400/I36f5nXgDESOzk9JNpSurQ) Short version is: Tiny trailer, two armed miscreants, one decent fellow confused about the situation, one victim. The perps are people who can’t even manage to feed themselves on a regular basis, and use Higgs as an enabler for food and pain meds. He’s hard of hearing, and the victim has got to get across to him that she’s under duress without the other two picking up the shotgun. I just can’t even get any farther than that. What a nightmare! ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/59 "2014-09-11T15:14:00Z")
OK, now, I’m starting to understand why this happened the way it did. Doesn’t change my view that contacting the police would have been best, but I can start to see why it didn’t play out that way. ---
**Author:** ![papergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/aca169/32.png) [@papergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/papergirl)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832/60 "2014-09-11T17:29:46Z")
I grew up in a tiny little town with a lot of people who look a lot like the people in that story. I’ve spend the last couple of days reviewing the number of people I know who would, in defiance of the apparent logic of calling police, spend time formulating and then attempting to carry it out. Among that number, I can also think of a good few who would do nothing, but would sit around drinking beer and telling each other, “I just don’t think it’s right, them keeping that woman in there. It just ain’t right.” but not doing anything. It’s actually sort of shocking how MANY people I know who would probably react much like this fellow did. I don’t necessarily understand his motivations, but I’m glad he followed through. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joelle-lockwood-rescued-2-months-after-abduction-living-in-a-cage/697832.md?page=4)