# "Joey" - The Fight Against Ignorance Has Been Lost **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 12, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-fight-against-ignorance-has-been-lost/268826 "2004-10-12T15:51:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-fight-against-ignorance-has-been-lost/268826/41 "2004-10-23T18:25:45Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > You guys just don’t get the incredibly subtle and biting satire that is Joey. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-fight-against-ignorance-has-been-lost/268826/42 "2004-10-23T20:17:19Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > You guys just don’t get the incredibly subtle and biting satire that is Joey. > > Just like Showgirls. > > _Running like mad_ And _Starship Troopers_, don’t forget ST! It’s a masterwork. ---
**Author:** ![cryptic\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@cryptic\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cryptic_j)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-fight-against-ignorance-has-been-lost/268826/43 "2004-10-23T23:07:40Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > To me, the point is not whether a show is realistic, but whether it remains true to the setting it establishes I agree - - and with a spin off - - you have to take into account the parent show too… and I think Friends is guilty of the occasional lapse of reality - - - sadly I can’t think of any one thing in particular - - I haven’t seen _Joey_ - - living in the UK… dont think we’ve got it yet - - but I am coming to the states in November ( 2 weeks and 1 day I’ll be amongst you!!! ) so I’ll try and catch an ep then… some sitcoms can pull off un-reality … by being realistic - - (I’m not sure if I’m making sense - – ah, blame the beer! ) The Office for example - - you may have heard of it - - it’s presented as a REAL documentary style show… but occasionaly David Brent does stuff that you KNOW wouldn’t really happen - - but… at the same time - - because of the character - - which due to the realism put in by the writers director and actors - - you DO believe it… maybe if the call for Joey had been a month later - - and he had been slack and just not bothered to learn the words in may be more plausible - - all the other stuff could still happen… and maybe if other characters had reacted correctly and Joey had just ploughed on regardless… it may still have been funny - - and plausible ish in the realms of this world… (bear in mind I haven’t seen the show) also - - does anyone know if an understudy would actually rehearse the part with the cast… I’ve only done amateur stuff - - where no-one understudies as such… I would assume they would be required to turn up - learn the words and watch the main actor to see how the part should be played… as a side note - Buffy and Angel have had some VERY realistic situations that provide comedy elements - - and they are fantasy shows - - as did Firefly too… maybe Joss Whedon and co. should write ALL TV! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-fight-against-ignorance-has-been-lost/268826/44 "2004-10-24T05:11:56Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > You guys just don’t get the incredibly subtle and biting satire that is Joey. > > Just like Showgirls. Yes - you see, it’s not that Joey is BAD. It’s deliberately bad. The atrocious nature of the writing and acting it itself a satire of situation comedies. The director’s purpose here is to make a sitcom that shocks the senses, that presents you with idiotic characters, absurd situations and poorly constructed one liners as a commentary on those things in true sitcoms. If you don’t see that, you must be a mouth-breathing dork who doesn’t understand TV. (Please note use of sarcasm.) ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-fight-against-ignorance-has-been-lost/268826/45 "2004-10-24T17:16:43Z")
> [@TeaElle](#): > > Was there universally abysmal writing on: > _Maude > The Jeffersons > Happy Days > Laverne & Shirley > Mork & Mindy > Rhoda > The Facts of Life > Benson > A Different World > Gomer Pyle, USMC_? No, but you’re leaving out such immortal classics as: _After M_A_S_H , What’s Happening Now!!\* , and _Joanie Loves Chachi_ ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-fight-against-ignorance-has-been-lost/268826/46 "2004-10-24T17:41:40Z")
Wait a moment… What was _Happy Days_ a spinoff of? I thought it was the patriarch of its (rather extensive) spinoff family. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-fight-against-ignorance-has-been-lost/268826/47 "2004-10-24T17:56:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait a moment… What was _Happy Days_ a spinoff of? I thought it was the patriarch of its (rather extensive) spinoff family. Love, American Style. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-fight-against-ignorance-has-been-lost/268826/48 "2004-10-24T17:57:38Z")
> [@moriah](#): > > … > > But, given the episode of ‘Joey’ I just described. Come on. > > Can you imagine Frasier coming in and says, “Hey, guess what, Dad? NASA picked me to go to space! I’ll be the first Crane in space!” > > “Hate to break this to ya, son, but they took me up this morning.” \ > > Niles: “Oh, gee, sorry Fraze, I didn’t want to tell you, but, aliens took me into space last night. See, they gave me a 1920’s style ray gun. {shoots couch, it vaporizes}” \ > > The comedy comes from the situation. But when they screw with reality just to get the laugh, that’s not only not funny… it is the most assinine, laziest, and imbecilic writing of comedy you can find. There’s no plausibility. There’s no verisimmilitude. There’s no hope for humanity. > > Peace. 1. Actually I think that episode of Frasier **would** be funny! 2. How **you** doin’? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-fight-against-ignorance-has-been-lost/268826/49 "2004-10-24T18:27:25Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Love, American Style. [Episode in question](http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/GuidePageServlet/showid-105/epid-166400/). ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-fight-against-ignorance-has-been-lost/268826/50 "2004-10-24T21:14:05Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > So, what was the final episode of the Brady Bunch and why didn’t Reed want to appear in it? Bobby was trying to sell hair tonic door-to-door, with no luck. He wheedled Greg, whose high school graduation was the next day, into a sale. Greg’s hair turned orange and everyone panicked, but Carol’s hairstylist was able to change it back before the graduation ceremony. Reed had been getting increasingly frustrated with the implausibility in some of the season 5 scripts (Peter meeting his exact double, Cindy doing a Shirley Temple routine in order to impress someone she thinks is a talent scout, Greg faking a UFO sighting), and this script was the back-breaking straw for him. He stated that door-to-door sales, cosmetic accidents played for laughs, and hair tonic itself were all straight out of The Little Rascals. “When the kid’s hair turns orange, it is Batman in the operating room. I can’t play it.” I can’t say I disagree with him, but what I found even **more** implausible than the stuff he objected to was the idea that, as Carol said in the tag scene, “It’s too bad that your father had to be out of town and couldn’t see [Greg’s graduation].” As if any dad worth his salt wouldn’t juggle his schedule so he could see his first-born graduate from high school! Also forgot to say that the situation described in the OP sounds like something out of a Warner Brothers cartoon, where much of the humor **derives** from leaps of logic. But it also calls to mind an early episode of Fresh Prince. I forget the circumstances, but Will was at a rap concert and Philip (his uncle, the lawyer) had to track him down. He’s running around backstage trying to find him, and somehow ends up **on** stage, before the act comes out. Me: Like he could get all the way out to the stage apron without someone stopping him! Friend: He just might, though, if people thought he was a producer or some kind of hotshot. You can get away with a heck of a lot if you wear a suit and act like you’re important. So that’s barely plausible. But Joey standing around in his Richard III costume, without anyone wondering why such a person is in the cowboy-play theater simply is not. ---
**Author:** ![carterba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@carterba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carterba)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-fight-against-ignorance-has-been-lost/268826/51 "2004-10-25T02:30:04Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Similarly, Jay Sherman appearing on The Simpsons was not, as Bart claimed, “another cheap cartoon crossover”. Matt Groening _hated_ this episode because he though it was (1) crass advertising for an unrelated show; and (2) implausible because of animation style differences. It’s the only one he’s had his name removed from. IIRC, the “another cheap cartoon crossover” line was a sop to Groening. Plausibility is in the eye of the beholder, I guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-fight-against-ignorance-has-been-lost/268826.md?page=2)