# Joey the Rat (aka Benedict XVI) and His Latin American Fairytale **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 15, 2007, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234 "2007-05-15T20:58:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/21 "2007-05-16T04:52:49Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] I think they’re objecting to the [human sacrifice thingy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice_in_Aztec_culture), although AFAICT the Aztecs were not unique among Mesoamericans in that regard. [/QUOTE] No, but they did take it farther than any known culture in human history. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/22 "2007-05-16T04:57:07Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Fuck you, asshole. [/QUOTE] Fuck **you,** dipshit! Benedict XVI is a slimy, sewer-crawling **RAT!** Just like each and every one of his predecessors in office! And just like Jesus, Moses and Abraham, and just like their false God! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/23 "2007-05-16T04:57:16Z")
Yeah, I figured as much. But it’s not exactly an immediate issue, is it? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/24 "2007-05-16T04:58:36Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Fuck **you,** dipshit! Benedict XVI is a slimy, sewer-crawling **RAT!** Just like each and every one of his predecessors in office! And just like Jesus, Moses and Abraham, and just like their false God! [/QUOTE] Somebody better notify **BrainGlutton** that **Der Trihs** found his password… ETA: …or maybe it was **prr**. I can never remember those guys. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/25 "2007-05-16T05:22:01Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Yeah, I figured as much. But it’s not exactly an immediate issue, is it? Moreover, I don’t see exactly how it differs that much from some other historical cultures’ customs of executing prisoners of war and recalcitrant slaves. Numerically, did the Aztecs really end up killing many more people, either among their own or neighboring societies, than some other ancient/medieval cultures did? And in terms of cruelty too, I’m unconvinced that the Aztecs qualify as uniquely loathsome. I know that if I had the choice, I’d rather die via a fast cardiectomy in a human-sacrifice ritual than via slow execution by crucifixion or anal impalement. Icko. > [@BG](#): > > Benedict XVI is a slimy, sewer-crawling RAT! Actually, I think the [nicknames](http://urbanversusrural.blogspot.com/2005_04_01_archive.html) he got from his co-religionists have more pizzazz than the somewhat unimaginative “Joey the Rat”: > [@](#): > > Newspapers and radio stations recalled that the new pope’s nicknames include Cardinal No and the Grand Inquisitor, references to his former role as enforcer of church doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/26 "2007-05-16T05:46:01Z")
I don’t think of him that often, but when I do, I can’t resist calling him [Pope](http://www.stpatrickandstgeorge.org/images/pagemaster/popebenedict.jpg) [Cliffy](http://www.bostonist.com/attachments/boston_caroline/cliff_claven.jpg) in my head. ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/27 "2007-05-16T05:56:10Z")
Wow! The Chili Peppers verse I posted in the MPSIMS Falwell thread is WAY more appropriate here. \*To anyone who’s listenin’ You’re not born into sin The guilt they try and give you Puke it in the nearest bin Missionary maddness Sweep up culture with a broom **Trashing ancient ways Is par for the course It’s fucking rude!**\* ---
**Author:** ![Intravenus\_De\_Milo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Intravenus\_De\_Milo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intravenus_De_Milo)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/28 "2007-05-16T06:08:24Z")
Gecchhhh. Hey, I’m not too proud of what the Aztecs did - they subjugated their fare share of indigenous Mexicans for centuries - but let’s not lump ALL of Latin America into that cadre. Almost all of the 20 MILLION inhabitants of Hispaniola were estimated to have died of disease, starvation, or slaughter within only a few decades (if that) of Columbus’ arrival, and they weren’t really known for their iron-fist subjugation as the Aztecs were. What I have a problem with is that the Pope’s speech does, as some have mentioned, not only whitewash history, but create this air of benevolence and warm fuzzy understanding that just wasn’t there in the colonial era. Here are some of the choice passages from the cite: “Yet what did the acceptance of the Christian faith mean for the nations of Latin America and the Caribbean? For them, it meant knowing and welcoming Christ, the unknown God whom their ancestors were seeking, without realizing it, in their rich religious traditions.” Yeah, the Aztecs and Incas and Mixtecs and Tainos and Caribes and Tlaxcallans and Mayans - they were all miraculously searching for the very god that their conquerors were forcing on them! What a remarkable coincidence! “…the proclamation of Jesus and of his Gospel did not at any point involve an alienation of the pre-Columbian cultures, nor was it the imposition of a foreign culture.” Ummm, WHAT. I’d say a bunch of foreigners pointing guns at you and forcing you to mine gold while at the same time tearing down your temples to build their own (as in Peru, where churches were built on the foundations of Inca structures) is a pretty darn big imposition of foreign culture. Just because Latin American culture became a mix of different ancestries doesn’t mean everyone was real happy with it. It’s not exactly like An American Tail. “…uniting humanity and at the same time respecting the wealth of diversity, opening people everywhere to growth in genuine humanity…” Oh, yes, diversity was respected all right. Humanity was unified, for sure. That’s why slavery persisted in many of the colonies until well into the 19th century, and why people of various mixed backgrounds (mulattoes, creoles, etc.) were treated pretty much as lower-class citizens when compared with those of purely European origin. "The wisdom of the indigenous peoples fortunately led them to form a synthesis between their cultures and the Christian faith which the missionaries were offering them. " Fortunately, because things were looking pretty bleak for the home team if they didn’t. But gosh darn it, they were just so SMART to welcome Christ into their hearts! Good for them! Jesus might want to talk to His HR head, because He has some real dopes working for Him. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/29 "2007-05-16T06:10:37Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] I think they’re objecting to the [human sacrifice thingy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice_in_Aztec_culture), although AFAICT the Aztecs were not unique among Mesoamericans in that regard. [/QUOTE] And mass slavery too. And OK, let us condemn the rest of the other Meso-American cultures with mass human sacrifice and an economy based upon slavery. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/30 "2007-05-16T06:15:13Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Fuck **you,** dipshit! Benedict XVI is a slimy, sewer-crawling **RAT!** Just like each and every one of his predecessors in office! And just like Jesus, Moses and Abraham, and just like their false God! [/QUOTE] And, note this dudes- he _edited_ to get this. :rolleyes: Off your meds dude? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/31 "2007-05-16T06:27:59Z")
Hey now, let’s not be hating on the rats. [\>:(\<](http://www.dapper.com.au/ramblefuzzlets.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/32 "2007-05-16T06:32:14Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Fuck **you,** dipshit! Benedict XVI is a slimy, sewer-crawling **RAT!** Just like each and every one of his predecessors in office! And just like Jesus, Moses and Abraham, and just like their false God! [/QUOTE] Oh, and dude? I ain’t much religious and not Catholic at all, but “Pope Joey the Rat (i.e. Benedict XVI, formerly Joseph Ratzinger)” is just sooooo 3rd grade. You \*are \*older than 8, aren’t you? :dubious: I mean, even 10yos have stopped thinking little playground name games like that are funny. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/33 "2007-05-16T07:14:18Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] And mass slavery too. And OK, let us condemn the rest of the other Meso-American cultures with mass human sacrifice and an economy based upon slavery. [/QUOTE] Pointing out the bad stuff about the society the Conquistadores and their religious camp followers invaded is not going to make the pope’s speech factual. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/34 "2007-05-16T10:58:15Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Ever heard of the Prophecy of St. Malachy? [/QUOTE] No, I’m an atheist. I miss out on a lot of prophecies. Enlighten me please. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/35 "2007-05-16T11:21:06Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] I think they’re objecting to the [human sacrifice thingy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice_in_Aztec_culture), although AFAICT the Aztecs were not unique among Mesoamericans in that regard. [/QUOTE] Well, that’s a very bizarre way to object to it. If human sacrifice is bad, then what the hell is genocide? ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/36 "2007-05-16T11:39:24Z")
> [@](#): > > He was focussing on the benefits of the Latin America region accepting Christ, Accept, or Die! Some advertising campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/37 "2007-05-16T11:40:43Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Well, that’s a very bizarre way to object to it. If human sacrifice is bad, then what the hell is genocide? [/QUOTE] Cleaning your neighbors house? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/38 "2007-05-16T12:55:44Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Oh, and dude? I ain’t much religious and not Catholic at all, but “Pope Joey the Rat (i.e. Benedict XVI, formerly Joseph Ratzinger)” is just sooooo 3rd grade. [/QUOTE] I was thinking more ‘minor gangster in a Damon Runyon story.’ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/39 "2007-05-16T13:00:11Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] The pope – any pope – is committed to the idea that Christianity is **universal,** the One True Faith for **all** people regardless of cultural background. You can’t reasonably expect him to do anything less than glorify the conversion of non-Christians to the faith, at whatever cost to their lives or their indigenous culture. If nice ol’ JPII had made a speech on the subject – would it have been any different? [/QUOTE] Actually, I think that if JPII or Paul VI (who was actually a very good pope, aside from _Humanae Vitae_) had given a speech on the subject, it would have been quite different. Neither of them bought into the notion that the RCC is and always has been a perfect institution. Ratzinger seems to believe exactly that, AFAICT: that if the Catholic Church did it, it’s good, and you folks in the pews, shut up and give your tithes, or the door’s thataway. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234/40 "2007-05-16T13:01:44Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Somehow, I’m not expecting Oscar Martyr to be canonized during the current papal reign. [/QUOTE] Neither am I, unfortunately. (And on a lighter note, I first read that as “Oscar Meyer”.) 😛 Sadly, **Frank** , you are correct. Let’s hope that they continue to fight against the status quo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joey-the-rat-aka-benedict-xvi-and-his-latin-american-fairytale/404234.md?page=3)