# Jogger Pushes Pedestrian into Bus Path. Whaaa? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 10, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265 "2017-08-10T18:00:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/61 "2017-08-12T13:42:13Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt too, but what makes that difficult is that he didn’t even look back or pause or anything. He just kept right on running. That is not normal behavior. That was literally a hit and run with a side of reckless indifference. I’m not saying he’s a nice guy. This is one horrendous person. I’m saying that he may not have attempted to murder someone intentionally. > [@Merneith](#): > > You can - but it still makes you guilty of assault. And if you push them in front of a bus and never look back, it still leaves you open to charges like attempted manslaughter or depraved indifference. (Or it would in the US. I don’t know what the charges would be in England but I would be very surprised if they don’t have something comparable.) > > It also makes you a freaking sociopath. Yes. Still not necessarily a killer. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/62 "2017-08-12T13:53:15Z")
The woman really went flying. If he just bumped her, or even gave her a distracted shove, that wouldn’t have happened. He pushed her HARD. This is what my people call a shmuck. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/63 "2017-08-12T14:21:11Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > I think that the part when I wrote “not going after her” made what I meant fairly clear. Perhaps the responses you’ve gotten indicate that it wasn’t as clear. Anyway, the quote I was respjnding to seemed to muddy your point, which is why I asked. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/64 "2017-08-12T14:50:42Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > I’m not saying he’s a nice guy. This is one horrendous person. > > I’m saying that he may not have attempted to murder someone intentionally. > > Yes. Still not necessarily a killer. No, he may not have attempted to murder her. But his attempted manslaughter is right there on the video for all to see. Pushing someone into oncoming traffic is certainly attempting to kill someone, even if didn’t leave the house specifically looking for someone to kill. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/65 "2017-08-12T14:56:25Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > No, he may not have attempted to murder her. But his attempted manslaughter is right there on the video for all to see. > > Pushing someone into oncoming traffic is certainly attempting to kill someone, even if didn’t leave the house specifically looking for someone to kill. Yes. If he was even aware of said oncoming traffic, or where in the sidewalk the woman landed. which I suspect he wasn’t. At least I think he wouldn’t have used the same route on his way back if he had been. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/66 "2017-08-12T15:00:34Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > I’m saying that he may not have attempted to murder someone intentionally. You acknowledge that it seems he pushed the woman deliberately in order to get her out of his way, but you believe it was not done in order to push her under the bus. Other than a few jokes, I don’t think anyone is arguing that he attempted to kill her. That a strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/67 "2017-08-12T15:03:56Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > Yes. If he was even aware of said oncoming traffic, or where in the sidewalk the woman landed. which I suspect he wasn’t. At least I think he wouldn’t have used the same route on his way back if he had been. Nonsense. There’s traffic the whole time as the guy’s jogging along. Claiming that the guy didn’t know about the traffic that is right next to him doesn’t pass the smell test. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/68 "2017-08-12T15:06:56Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > You acknowledge that it seems he pushed the woman deliberately in order to get her out of his way, but you believe it was not done in order to push her under the bus. Other than a few jokes, I don’t think anyone is arguing that he attempted to kill her. That a strawman. No, I am arguing that the guy did attempt to kill her. It may not have been murder. It may have been a spur of the moment thing. But he deliberately shoved a woman into oncoming traffic. That’s attempted manslaughter, if not attempted murder. And I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out to be attempted murder. I think when he came back for a second look, he was trying to check his results. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/69 "2017-08-12T15:09:24Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > You acknowledge that it seems he pushed the woman deliberately in order to get her out of his way, but you believe it was not done in order to push her under the bus. Other than a few jokes, I don’t think anyone is arguing that he attempted to kill her. That a strawman. Am I? > [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Yeah but the woman is to his right the whole time. If he wanted to move away from her he would have gone to his left. Instead, he actually veers slightly to his right and into the woman’s path as he approaches her. > > If it was one of those “oops! you both move in the same direction” things and they collided he probably would have stopped or at the very least looked over his shoulder. > [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Also the guy never looks back. Most people who accidentally knocked someone down would stop. > [@aceplace57](#): > > It seems to me that the jogger deliberately altered his run to intersect and shove the lady. > > I can’t explain why. The way he just kept running without even reacting is very strange. > > It reminded me of a nasty tempered neighbor from my childhood. He would kick dogs he encountered on the sidewalk. He did it casually, like it was nothing. He wouldn’t give the dog a chance to get out of the way. > > I don’t think the jogger meant for the lady to fall into the path of a bus. He should face a misdemeanor charge for hitting her. > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > The sidewalk is not crowded, he actually moves to his right in order to be close enough to body-check her, there was plenty of room on his left to completely avoid her. And he was not looking down at all, his arms were swinging the whole time. From the available video it is almost certainly deliberate. He may not have known the bus was there but he knocked her into the street where it was reasonable to assume there would be a danger from traffic. > > The question of motive remains open until the real culprit (assuming the arrested-and-released guy isn’t it) is found and chooses to share his feelings. > [@Darryl\_Lict](#): > > Dude’s a psychopath. I’ve had a similar thing happen to me by some fuckwit. I was walking on the sidewalk along the beach where i came upon a jogger in an area that was slightly constricted by a sign. There was plenty of room for two people to pass. Here in America, we walk to the right, and everyone knows this. He was moving to his left, and I was moving to the right. He continued to his left and then checked me into the fence like Luc Robitaille. At least he didn’t try to kill me. > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Yes, she’s moving to HER left which means she’s moving AWAY from him. So they are NOT doing the little oopsie dance you were describing. She was not in his way and she was moving further out of his way, and he (apparently, from what we can see in the video) deliberately moved into her path and knocked her down. > > I understand that you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but there does not seem to be much actual doubt to give. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/70 "2017-08-12T15:10:33Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Nonsense. There’s traffic the whole time as the guy’s jogging along. Claiming that the guy didn’t know about the traffic that is right next to him doesn’t pass the smell test. There’s a difference between knowing there’s traffic and knowing there’s a bus right behind you. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/71 "2017-08-12T15:53:59Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > There’s a difference between knowing there’s traffic and knowing there’s a bus right behind you. Because pushing someone into automobile traffic is not deadly? ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/72 "2017-08-12T15:57:12Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Because pushing someone into automobile traffic is not deadly? … or any car behind you. Or where the woman is even positioned. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/73 "2017-08-12T15:59:27Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > … or any car behind you. Or where the woman is even positioned. Sorry- not sure what this means ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/74 "2017-08-12T16:02:10Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Sorry- not sure what this means it means he pushed somebody and kept running. He may not have been aware that: a) The woman’s head fell on the road, nor b) There was any car right there at the moment. Still horrible, just not attempted murder. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/75 "2017-08-12T16:05:29Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > You can push someone, and that can still be accidental. No you can’t. A “push,” by definition, is a deliberate act: “(noun) an act of exerting force on someone or something in order to move them away from oneself.” So unless you are claiming he didn’t have command of his voluntary muscles, which would really be something consider he’s, you know, jogging, you can’t plausibly argue that he _accidentally_ PUSHED her. Even if he “shouldered” her _accidentally_ into oncoming traffic, which is what I imagine he’ll ultimately claim once he’s found, he showed a calloused disregard for her safety because he didn’t stop. > [@Go\_Arachnic\_Laser](#): > > There’s a difference between knowing there’s traffic and knowing there’s a bus right behind you. That is true, and that is precisely why we have degrees of crime. My guess is that he’ll either be charged with a reckless endangerment-type charge, OR he’ll be charged with attempted homicide, and after he learns some expensive and life-changing lessons (via lawyer’s fees and social media), he’ll plead down to reckless endangerment. Had she actually been hit and killed by the bus, he probably would not have gotten off so easily because people tend to be more merciful when there’s no corpse. But then again, without her testimony that he actually pushed her, he may have gotten off because some people just refuse to believe what their own eyes tell them. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/76 "2017-08-12T16:08:08Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > it means he pushed somebody and kept running. He may not have been aware that: > > a) The woman’s head fell on the road, nor > > b) There was any car right there at the moment. > > Still horrible, just not attempted murder. Has there been a flood of people calling this murder? Callous disregard for life, reckless endangerment, forms of manslaughter etc, sure. Maybe I missed all the posts saying it was flat out murder, that this is such a critical correction to be focusing on. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/77 "2017-08-12T16:11:17Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Has there been a flood of people calling this murder? Callous disregard for life, reckless endangerment, forms of manslaughter etc, sure. Maybe I missed all the posts saying it was flat out murder, that this is such a critical correction to be focusing on. I was responding to Merneith, who said: > [@Merneith](#): > > No, I am arguing that the guy did attempt to kill her. It may not have been murder. It may have been a spur of the moment thing. But he deliberately shoved a woman into oncoming traffic. That’s attempted manslaughter, if not attempted murder. > > And I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out to be attempted murder. I think when he came back for a second look, he was trying to check his results. He’s calling for flat out murder in there, wouldn’t you say? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/78 "2017-08-12T16:12:52Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > No, I am arguing that the guy did attempt to kill her. **It may not have been murder**. It may have been a spur of the moment thing. But he deliberately shoved a woman into oncoming traffic. That’s attempted manslaughter, if not attempted murder. > > And I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out to be attempted murder. I think when he came back for a second look, he was trying to check his results. > [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > I was responding to Merneith, who said: > He’s calling for flat out murder in there, wouldn’t you say? I’m going to answer “no” to your question (bolding mine). Not speaking for **Merneith** , but I take that comment as if you shove someone into oncoming traffic, who have to know their death is quite the possibility. And FWIW, that post came after you started this discussion on the intentionality of this guy’s act. Were there a bunch of other posts preceding yours claiming it was definitely intentional murder? ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/79 "2017-08-12T16:12:57Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > No you can’t. A “push,” by definition, is a deliberate act: > > “(noun) an act of exerting force on someone or something in order to move them away from oneself.” > > So unless you are claiming he didn’t have command of his voluntary muscles, which would really be something consider he’s, you know, jogging, you can’t plausibly argue that he _accidentally_ PUSHED her. Even if he “shouldered” her _accidentally_ into oncoming traffic, which is what I imagine he’ll ultimately claim once he’s found, he showed a calloused disregard for her safety because he didn’t stop. Fair enough. I was trying to say that he (probably) didn’t deliberately tried to kill somebody. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/80 "2017-08-12T16:13:48Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > > [@me](#): > > > > You acknowledge that it seems he pushed the woman deliberately in order to get her out of his way, but you believe it was not done in order to push her under the bus. Other than a few jokes, I don’t think anyone is arguing that he attempted to kill her. That a strawman. > > Am I? Can you go into all of those quotes and **bold** the part where they (and I) are arguing that that this person is attempting to kill the person? You’ve spend some time digging up a list including my comment > [@me again](#): > > Also the guy never looks back. Most people who accidentally knocked someone down would stop. How exactly does that imply a position that he was attempting to murder someone? Can you bold that portion of my comment? How is that not the same as deliberately pushing someone? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265.md?page=5)