# Jogger Pushes Pedestrian into Bus Path. Whaaa? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 10, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265 "2017-08-10T18:00:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/81 "2017-08-12T16:16:53Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Can you go into all of those quotes and **bold** the part where they (and I) are arguing that that this person is attempting to kill the person? You’ve spend some time digging up a list including my commentHow exactly does that imply a position that he was attempting to murder someone? Can you bold that portion of my comment? > > How is that not the same as deliberately pushing someone? True enough. You may have been saying that he pushed the woman deliberately, without intent of throwing her into traffic. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/82 "2017-08-12T16:34:03Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > -sigh- > > Fine, so I’ll play the contrarian again. To be fair, it’s so easy to prejudge something and then finding it impossible to see anything else than what you already preconceived, that someone has to be the devil’s advocate in any situation, to avoid the hivemind effect. > > I don’t think the guy went necessarily after the woman. He started sprinting, which tends to move your body to the center of the path, particularly to your dominant side. I see him moving his shoulders when he notices he’s going to collide, and a hint of him doing a dismissive “sorry” gesture with his hand after the crash. Which is douchebaggey, of course but, hey, once you’ve got a good rhythm going, having to stop sucks. I don’t think he even realized there was a bus at all. > > And I think this is also the most likely explanation. I think your scenario is the least likely explanation. I didn’t prejudge this, my first exposure to it was the video which shows exactly what happened. The most likely explanation is that he’s a prick who shoved this woman out of “his way”, and he’s lucky she didn’t get her skull crushed by a bus. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/83 "2017-08-12T16:35:59Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I think your scenario is the least likely explanation. I didn’t prejudge this, my first exposure to it was the video which shows exactly what happened. The most likely explanation is that he’s a prick who shoved this woman out of “his way”, and he’s lucky she didn’t get her skull crushed by a bus. Aren’t we saying the same exact thing? ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/84 "2017-08-12T16:36:06Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > True enough. You may have been saying that he pushed the woman deliberately, without intent of throwing her into traffic. As was I, in both of my quotes that you cited. Relatively few posters in this thread have alleged that he intended to knock her into the road, only that he deliberately shoved her as a consequence of which she fell, partly into the road. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/85 "2017-08-12T16:39:28Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > As was I, in both of my quotes that you cited. Relatively few posters in this thread have alleged that he intended to knock her into the road, only that he deliberately shoved her as a consequence of which she fell, partly into the road. Well, you did say he purposefully altered his course to crash into her. In that we differ. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/86 "2017-08-12T16:40:13Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > Aren’t we saying the same exact thing? No. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/87 "2017-08-12T16:42:46Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > No. A’ight. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/88 "2017-08-12T16:52:12Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > Fair enough. I was trying to say that he (probably) didn’t deliberately tried to kill somebody. I don’t think people are saying he meant to kill her. They’re saying that he’s lucky he didn’t kill her! Listen, people are charged everyday for homicides that they didn’t MEAN to do. The classic case is a driver who speeds, loses control of his car, and kills someone. While he didn’t deliberately try to kill anyone, were it not for the driver’s reckless stupidity, that person would still be alive. “Negligent homicide occurs when one person causes the death of another without malice, but with a high level of negligence that amounts to criminal negligence.” Were the jogger on a remote country road, then attempted murder wouldn’t be a consideration. However, this clearly was a busy street, so it’s not unreasonable to argue that the jogger knew, or should have known, that his actions would endanger that lady’s LIFE. And so a charge of “attempted murder” might actually be in order. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/89 "2017-08-12T17:07:42Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > I don’t think people are saying he meant to kill her. They’re saying that he’s lucky he didn’t kill her! Some do. Some in this thread claim he went after her deliberately. I’ve quoted examples. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/90 "2017-08-12T17:10:52Z")
Just watched the video. Depraved indifference for sure. I have no idea what he was thinking, but the behavior was so egregiously reckless it’s criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/91 "2017-08-12T18:10:05Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > There’s a difference between knowing there’s traffic and knowing there’s a bus right behind you. Is there? Like maybe if he’d thought he’d pushed her in front of a car, it would be no big deal? I don’t think that, legally, the make and model of the vehicles on the road make any difference to the charges that the guy deliberately pushed someone in front of the oncoming vehicles. > [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > I was responding to Merneith, who said: > > > [@](#): > > > > No, I am arguing that the guy did attempt to kill her. It may not have been murder. It may have been a spur of the moment thing. But he deliberately shoved a woman into oncoming traffic. That’s attempted manslaughter, if not attempted murder. > > > > And I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out to be attempted murder. I think when he came back for a second look, he was trying to check his results. > > He’s calling for flat out murder in there, wouldn’t you say? No, I’m calling for attempted manslaughter, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out to be a murder attempt after all. The man in the video deliberately shoved a woman into oncoming traffic. I agree that it may not have been his intention to murder her, but I won’t agree that he didn’t know there was traffic or that pushing a person into traffic might kill them. And it’s, she. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/92 "2017-08-12T18:31:44Z")
**Go\_Arachnid\_Laser** is allowing for a possible other explanation for the jogger’s actions. I’ve tried to give him (jogger) the benefit of the doubt, to see if there are scenarios which could explain his actions. It is possible, although not likely, that he is wearing earbuds while jogging and is having an intense conversation while jogging. Maybe it’s a business meeting or is otherwise distracted by the conversation. Maybe he’s been going through a terrible divorce and at that moment is having heated argument with his spouse. Maybe he’s so focused on the conversation. Possible, right? His push may be a reaction to, at the very last moment, realizing that _oh-my-God-there’s-someone-right-in-front-of-me!_, and it’s a knee-jerk reaction to that last-second realization that he’ll collide with her. Up to that moment, his eyes are open, but he’s not really seeing what’s in front of him until it’s too late to avoid a collision. Being distracted. It happens to the best of us, right? If so, then why doesn’t he at least stop to see if she’s alright? Maybe, in the heat of the moment he is so preoccupied with that discussion, and maybe he doesn’t realize that she fell. Maybe he thinks he merely pushed her aside, and he assumed she is okay. But then, what explains his steps just before the collision, the 2-3 steps he takes toward her, what’s the explanation for that? Could the alleged distraction also cause him to jog in her direction? So yeah, he may have been distracted. It is possible, but it doesn’t seem probable. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/93 "2017-08-12T18:31:55Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > [Putney Bridge jogger push suspect eliminated from inquiry](http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-40910144) > > It seems to be more complex than it first appeared. Maybe the guy has a secret twin. I read a Koontz novel once where that was the twist. Of course, if this guy’s really innocent, then the UK media certainly displayed callous disregard for smearing his name across the headlines for the past two days. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/94 "2017-08-12T18:33:40Z")
The search for a suspect continues. > **[Man arrested over 'jogger rage assault' eliminated from enquiries](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/police-release-man-arrested-over-jogger-rage-assault-with-no-further-action-a3610251.html)** > > Officers eliminate Eric Bellquist from their enquires as they renew efforts to identify a man seen pushing a woman in front of a bus > [@](#): > > Eric Bellquist has been eliminated from police enquiries after being detained by detectives on suspicion of grievous bodily harm earlier this week ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/95 "2017-08-12T19:06:36Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Maybe the guy has a secret twin. I read a Koontz novel once where that was the twist. > > Of course, if this guy’s really innocent, then the UK media certainly displayed callous disregard for smearing his name across the headlines for the past two days. :mad: That part of the justice process really sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/96 "2017-08-12T19:06:40Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > Some do. Some in this thread claim he went after her deliberately. I’ve quoted examples. “Going after her deliberately” is not the same as “deliberately intending to cause her death.” I am not clear why this distinction is so difficult. If I was unclear, let me repeat more clearly: I think his actions were deliberate, although they may have been spur of the moment; I don’t know if he intended to push her into the street but I am pretty sure that he intended to push her. Is that clear enough? I have made every effort to be agnostic about his intent, beyond what is pretty clearly shown in the video, which is that he changed his direction and he shoved the woman. It is remotely possible that he was in some sort of psychological fugue state where he didn’t know what he was doing. It’s hard for me to imagine any other explanation, other than intent. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/97 "2017-08-12T19:50:20Z")
I’m starting to wonder if this isn’t some psychological experiment to demonstrate how eager people are to give a white man the benefit of the doubt, even though we just watched him literally shove a person in front of a bus. You don’t know! He probably meant well! ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/98 "2017-08-12T19:59:26Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > … even though we just watched him literally shove a person in front of a bus. > > You don’t know! He probably meant well! That’s funny. (I mean, knowing that she didn’t actually get her head crushed!) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/99 "2017-08-12T20:01:27Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I’m starting to wonder if this isn’t some psychological experiment to demonstrate how eager people are to give a white man the benefit of the doubt, even though we just watched him literally shove a person in front of a bus. > > You don’t know! He probably meant well! It must at least be in part because the behavior is so incomprehensible. He clearly shoves her on purpose, but then doesn’t even seem to notice the result. It’s beyond bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/100 "2017-08-12T20:17:17Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > It must at least be in part because the behavior is so incomprehensible. He clearly shoves her on purpose, but then doesn’t even seem to notice the result. It’s beyond bizarre. That’s the thing- as an adult I have never in my life shoved a person out of the way as I was going through my day. I’ve bumped into people and collided into them, but shoved them? Never. This person’s behavior is so beyond the norm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265.md?page=6)