# Jogger Pushes Pedestrian into Bus Path. Whaaa? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 10, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265 "2017-08-10T18:00:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/141 "2017-08-14T16:41:14Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The video in the OP. Watch all the way through, the video repeats in slow motion. > His altering course and shoulder check is clear. Sorry, I don’t think that is clear at all. Neither the deviation nor the shoulder check (although some people are saying it is a push and some a shoulder check, neither is clear from the video) Taking the line of the shadow on the path he doesn’t seem to move much one way or the other until possibly immediately before the point of impact, which seems much more in keeping with a reflexive movement when you realise impact is imminent. Seems much more likely that it was accidental and the reason he’s a callous shit is because he didn’t stop, probably because he was embarrassed about the collision in the first place. I suspect he was on autopilot, nothing more sinister than that. Note, he is still a clumsy arsehole who endangered a woman’s life but I don’t see any need to invent psychopathic intent when simpler explanations are available. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/142 "2017-08-14T19:50:05Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Sorry, I don’t think that is clear at all. Neither the deviation nor the shoulder check (although some people are saying it is a push and some a shoulder check, neither is clear from the video) > > Taking the line of the shadow on the path he doesn’t seem to move much one way or the other Watch his feet and where they strike the sidewalk relative to the shadow line. At the moment of impact his feet are clearly closer to the shadow line. Watch his feet. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/143 "2017-08-14T20:13:14Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Watch his feet and where they strike the sidewalk relative to the shadow line. At the moment of impact his feet are clearly closer to the shadow line. > > Watch his feet. And none of that’s inconsistent with him carelessly not paying attention, lookup up and realizing that there’s someone coming towards him at the last moment, and reacting wrongly. The guy deserves severe condemnation and probably criminal charges for not stopping and not even looking back to see if he hurt her, but I think all of this armchair diagnosis of a deliberate malicious attack based solely on that video is groundless. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/144 "2017-08-14T20:49:30Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > And none of that’s inconsistent with him carelessly not paying attention, lookup up and realizing that there’s someone coming towards him at the last moment, and reacting wrongly. > > The guy deserves severe condemnation and probably criminal charges for not stopping and not even looking back to see if he hurt her, but I think all of this armchair diagnosis of a deliberate malicious attack based solely on that video is groundless. Not exactly _groundless_. We can’t know for sure what his state of mind was, absent interviewing him - and even then, it may never be known. However, it is reasonable to use all the evidence in the video to attempt to reconstruct it. We know two things for sure - he smacked into her and sent her flying; and he didn’t stop - or even look around - afterwards. This is in itself evidence of his state of mind. It is unusual to say the least to knock someone flying and not react to that, at least to see what happened. It is possible to speculate that he was just embarrassed, or simply callous. Such behavior is however more consistent with active malice. It may not be enough to convict the guy “beyond a reasonable doubt”, but then, we aren’t sitting on the jury … ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/145 "2017-08-14T20:59:57Z")
aceplace57: > [@](#): > > So why did he lawyer up?. > > This could have been cleared up in 10 mins and he wouldn’t have been detained. He wouldn’t be a suspect. > > "Officer give me a moment to open my phone’s banking App. > > Here is the credit charge for my Airline reservation to America Aug xx. > > Here is the credit charge for my Airline reservation from America to London Aug 10. " > > “Here are my ticket stubs” > > He could also provide the number for the hotel he stayed at. > > Case closed. Move on to the next suspect. > > Instead he hires a high dollar law firm. To do what? Airline reservations speak for themselves. It’s very easy to prove when you flew to America and returned. Policeman: “Cool, show your evidence to the judge. That part’s not our job. Until then, enjoy our holding cell, or find yourself a bail bondsman.” Even innocent people should lawyer up if they find themselves under arrest. You need someone who knows just what the cops can or can’t bully you into. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/146 "2017-08-14T22:15:31Z")
Is there a difference between the UK and the USA in how statements made immediately upon questioning or arrest are considered by the Court? On a related note, is there a difference between the UK and the USA in how prior consistent exculpatory evidence is treated by the court? Here’s an[interesting article](http://digitalcommons.osgoode.yorku.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2061&context=ohlj)from Ontario, Canada, (which for those not previously aware, is neither in the UK nor the USA, but has a lot in “common” with both of those countries’ legal systems). ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/147 "2017-08-15T01:57:52Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > And none of that’s inconsistent with him carelessly not paying attention, lookup up and realizing that there’s someone coming towards him at the last moment, and reacting wrongly. > > The guy deserves severe condemnation and probably criminal charges for not stopping and not even looking back to see if he hurt her, but I think all of this armchair diagnosis of a deliberate malicious attack based solely on that video is groundless. I was not speaking to that now, was I. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/148 "2017-08-15T11:17:03Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Watch his feet and where they strike the sidewalk relative to the shadow line. At the moment of impact his feet are clearly closer to the shadow line. > > Watch his feet. I did before and I have again. Still not convincing. The only point at which he deviates from a straight line is at the point of contact. A last minute “oh shit!” reaction would produce the same result and I still suspect that’s the more likely reason. Had there been no bus and no media coverage beforehand and someone posted this video as an example of not paying attention, everyone would chuckle and get on with their lives. The video is not good evidence of a violent assault, to me it is nothing more sinister than can be seen on umpteen “funny video” TV shows. The man is definitely a clumsy, rude arsehole with little or compassion, but highly unlikely to be a would-be killer. If that video is the only evidence then short of a statement of criminal intent from the accused I can’t see any serious charges sticking even if they do find him. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/149 "2017-08-15T12:22:31Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Had there been no bus and no media coverage beforehand and someone posted this video as an example of not paying attention, everyone would chuckle and get on with their lives. …Except there WAS a bus and there IS media coverage, and someone DIDN’T post this video as an example of not paying attention. Other than that, I think you’ve perfectly grasped what went on. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/150 "2017-08-15T12:34:32Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > I have no idea what he meant, and generally agree with those giving it secondary, at most, weight. The video shows what is IMO clearly negligent and reckless disregard for someone else’s life in actions that could easily have cost the other person their life, which is a crime. Barring other evidence of intent to harm, it’s mind reading to claim that was the case. > > Like attributing a racial motive to somebody who doesn’t see the same way you do. You’ve demonstrated the psychological experiment where people bring in race to situations without any actual facts pointing to it as a factor. Actually, I was bringing race and gender to the discussion. Race and gender are a factor in every day life because they are a factor in every day human identity. And I was pointing out that here we have a white man, on video, shoving a woman in front of bus, and people were struggling to find excuses, like, “oh he didn’t hit her that hard or he would have sent her flying” or " maybe he didn’t see the traffic" or “you don’t know that he meant to hurt her”. You can’t tell me that a black man would have had the same benefit of the doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/151 "2017-08-15T12:43:39Z")
It’s not about race, gender, “cis privilege”, “sidewalk rage” or other nonsense. Sociopaths do sociopathic things. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/152 "2017-08-15T13:12:48Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > There was a plane crash in Germany about 15 years ago. Two planes were informed, by air traffic control and by on-board radar, that they were on a collision course. Both of them descended to try to avoid the other. If just one had flown straight and level, they’d have missed by 1,000 feet. As it was, they flew right into each other. > > Maybe that’s not what happened in this case, but it does happen. I thought the rule was to turn to the right and climb. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/153 "2017-08-15T14:12:54Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I thought the rule was to turn to the right and climb. That would have worked. The assaulter would have leap-frogged himself over her into the bus. Problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/154 "2017-08-15T14:20:37Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > …Except there WAS a bus and there IS media coverage, and someone DIDN’T post this video as an example of not paying attention. Other than that, I think you’ve perfectly grasped what went on. I don’t think you’ve understood what I’m saying. The collision, in and of itself, is not remarkable nor obviously psychopathic. Had you watched it in isolation (without the knowledge of everyone already screaming “murderer!” “psycho!” etc. )I doubt you’d think it was anything other than an accident to begin with, and an arseholish reaction afterwards. To me, the simpler explanation is often the right one. Do you think he tried to kill her? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/155 "2017-08-15T14:31:51Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I did before and I have again. Still not convincing. The only point at which he deviates from a straight line is at the point of contact. A last minute “oh shit!” reaction would produce the same result and I still suspect that’s the more likely reason. > > (post shortened) > > If that video is the only evidence then short of a statement of criminal intent from the accused I can’t see any serious charges sticking even if they do find him. No. I went back and watched yet again, but it’s clear that he deviates from his line at least one full stride before impact. The problem with your theory that he was in auto pilot is that this deviation is too fast. He looks up and the woman is good step or two away from him. Yet, he us supposed to turn reflectively towards her, take one or two more steps, bring his arms up and push her hard enough to send her flying all without breaking stride. For criminal matters, (and IANAL) intent doesn’t require weeks of planning beforehand. People are convicted of crimes based on spontaneous actions if a reasonable person would have known that an action would have injured someone. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/156 "2017-08-15T14:34:24Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I don’t think you’ve understood what I’m saying. The collision, in and of itself, is not remarkable nor obviously psychopathic. Had you watched it in isolation (without the knowledge of everyone already screaming “murderer!” “psycho!” etc. )I doubt you’d think it was anything other than an accident to begin with, and an arseholish reaction afterwards. > > To me, the simpler explanation is often the right one. > > Do you think he tried to kill her? No, he pretty clearly intentionally pushed her. Beyond intentionally pushing her there’s no way to know his motive. Apparently the police thought his actions warranted criminal investigation, so it seems you are the minority in viewing this as no big deal. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/157 "2017-08-15T14:37:29Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Do you think he tried to kill her? I don’t know about kill, but trying to keep the context out of mind, yes, it does clearly look like he lunged at her. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/158 "2017-08-15T14:40:57Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > The collision, in and of itself, is not remarkable nor obviously psychopathic. That is your opinion, of which you are clearly in the minority. [Quote=Novelty Bobble] Had you watched it in isolation (without the knowledge of everyone already screaming “murderer!” “psycho!” etc. )I doubt you’d think it was anything other than an accident to begin with, and an arseholish reaction afterwards. [/QUOTE] I think you’re wrong. I actually watched it a great deal of skepticism, because of the media’s tendency to over-dramatize even the most mundane thing. I even started a parody thread awhile back because I was so annoyed by the “Your jaw will drop when you see this!” type “news” stories. However, after watching it, I was quite surprised that it is very obvious that he actually did push her, and it was only the alertness of the bus driver that saved her life. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/159 "2017-08-15T14:48:10Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > To me, the simpler explanation is often the right one. > > Do you think he tried to kill her? The simplest explanation is that, yes, he tried to kill her by shoving her into traffic. That’s literally, precisely, what he did on the video. Any other explanation involves trying to guess the reasons behind his actions, which is adding complexity to the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/160 "2017-08-15T14:49:23Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I don’t think you’ve understood what I’m saying. The collision, in and of itself, is not remarkable nor obviously psychopathic. Had you watched it in isolation (without the knowledge of everyone already screaming “murderer!” “psycho!” etc. )I doubt you’d think it was anything other than an accident to begin with, and an arseholish reaction afterwards. I often run in pedestrian traffic and I find this incident to be remarkable and frightening, even without the vehicular traffic lane and oncoming bus. A normal runner would allow passing space between himself and oncoming pedestrian traffic, especially when it is perfectly clear to do so. The fact that the guy didn’t veer left is already odd, and the fact that he suddenly veered right and pushed her is _ **quite** _ remarkable. If the collision were a surprise to him, it would have altered his trajectory. The fact that he continued after the impact without changing speed or direction indicates that he was braced for it. So no, it clearly was not an accident, and the fact that struck someone with sufficient force to knock her over and continued on without a backward glance is downright creepy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265.md?page=9)