# Jogger Pushes Pedestrian into Bus Path. Whaaa? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 10, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265 "2017-08-10T18:00:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/161 "2017-08-15T14:51:34Z")
[He was a dirty, rotten, scoundrel.](https://youtu.be/lSC2U2yYESw?t=1m46s) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/162 "2017-08-15T15:30:19Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > That would have worked. The assaulter would have leap-frogged himself over her into the bus. Problem solved. See? Do I have to do _everything_ around here!? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/163 "2017-08-15T16:08:40Z")
The one thing that is clear is that many people are seeing a massive amount of detail in one, grainy, long-range video from an unhelpful angle and where the key action immediately prior to contact is obscured by the victim. There is no clear “push”, there is no clear “deviation” There is a reaction by the runner a split-second before and during the contact at 26 seconds into that original video, but no definite “push”. his arms go up only after the contact and she falls down flat on her arse and then bounces and tips over backwards into the road. Had she been pushed by a hefty bloke with closing speed of \>10mph she would have flown into the road. It looks like a simple slight collision but at those speeds it is easily enough to knock you down and cause pain and injury. Try it, recreate the jogger and walker speeds and do a slight collision with an arm (when the walker is not expecting it) and then a deliberate “push” and see what happens. This video looks like the former to me. ---
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/164 "2017-08-15T16:12:25Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > The one thing that is clear is that many people are seeing a massive amount of detail in one, grainy, long-range video from an unhelpful angle and where the key action immediately prior to contact is obscured by the victim. There is no clear “push”, there is no clear “deviation” There is a reaction by the runner a split-second before and during the contact at 26 seconds into that original video, but no definite “push”. his arms go up only after the contact and she falls down flat on her arse and then bounces and tips over backwards into the road. Had she been pushed by a hefty bloke with closing speed of \>10mph she would have flown into the road. It looks like a simple slight collision but at those speeds it is easily enough to knock you down and cause pain and injury. > > Try it, recreate the jogger and walker speeds and do a slight collision with an arm (when the walker is not expecting it) and then a deliberate “push” and see what happens. This video looks like the former to me. I have accidentally collided with another pedestrian while I was running. I am familiar with the forces involved. You are completely wrong. ETA: Heck no, I will not be deliberately surprising walkers by pushing them! What a very odd suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/165 "2017-08-15T16:27:10Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > The one thing that is clear What is clear is that you are going to stick to your guns no matter what, but let me add to the chorus of people saying that you are completely and utterly wrong. He pushed her, its clear and obvious that he pushed her, anybody with eyes in their head can see that he pushed her, and how anybody can pretend any differently is rather strange to me. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/166 "2017-08-15T16:48:48Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > The one thing that is clear is that many people are seeing a massive amount of detail in one, grainy, long-range video from an unhelpful angle and where the key action immediately prior to contact is obscured by the victim. There is no clear “push”, there is no clear “deviation” There is a reaction by the runner a split-second before and during the contact at 26 seconds into that original video, but no definite “push”. You are a Defense lawyer’s dream. It was a definite push, and this is clear to pretty much _everyone_ but you. He shoves her. We define a shove as using one or both arms to push another person, which he clearly does here. Clearly. He uses his arms to push her. It is simply not possible that you do not see this. Between seconds 03 and 05, his right arm, then his left arm both come up and make a shoving motion. They slow it down. Slow motion. Between seconds 24 and 28. His arms come _up and out is a shoving motion_. And it’s in slow motion. I don’t think he tried to kill her. He may have been unaware that a bus was coming up behind them. But he was a dick and he pushed her. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/167 "2017-08-15T16:59:25Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > I don’t think he tried to kill her. He may have been unaware that a bus was coming up behind them. He could not have been unaware that there was busy traffic in the traffic lane - there was traffic pacing him the whole way - and, insofar as he appears to be a grown up, he could not have been unaware of what the consequences might be if you shove someone into busy traffic. Also, note that at the start of the video, the jogger’s on the left side of the path (left from his vantage point). A man in a suit walks down the path toward the jogger, along the traffic divider, eventually passing the jogger on the jogger’s right. The jogger ignores this man. It’s only when the woman comes into camera range that the jogger veers right, eventually colliding with her and shoving her towards the traffic lane. It’s a damn shame that they apparently can’t find him. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/168 "2017-08-15T17:08:36Z")
He could have been distracted. It happens. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/169 "2017-08-15T17:34:49Z")
Distracted, perhaps. Not stopping upon knocking her down, and not stopping on the return run, do not suggest momentary distraction or absentmindedness, and instead suggest deliberation. The question then is why the deliberation – thus my steroid-rage guess. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/170 "2017-08-15T17:44:46Z")
> [@Barrett\_Bonden](#): > > I have accidentally collided with another pedestrian while I was running. I am familiar with the forces involved. You are completely wrong. and I have accidentally collided with and shoved people while running. The way they behave and the forces imparted are very different…so…one anecdote each yes? > [@](#): > > ETA: Heck no, I will not be deliberately surprising walkers by pushing them! What a very odd suggestion. No, of course don’t do that, just get a willing accomplice to try it out. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/171 "2017-08-15T17:52:45Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > What is clear is that you are going to stick to your guns no matter what, but let me add to the chorus of people saying that you are completely and utterly wrong. No, I am perfectly comfortable with accepting that I’m wrong and if better evidence came forward to show a deliberate push I’d have no problem with saying so. I personally think the opposite is true. Everyone has decided that an intentional push is the only answer (it is certainly the most interesting and sensational answer) and so are interpreting the video in that light. > [@](#): > > He pushed her, its clear and obvious that he pushed her, anybody with eyes in their head can see that he pushed her, and how anybody can pretend any differently is rather strange to me. I’m not pretending otherwise, I simply don’t think it is at all clear that he “pushed” her. He certainly collided with her but at that point we have two grainy, blurry figures at the top of the video frame and anyone clearly seeing _anything_ from those few frames is stretching things somewhat. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/172 "2017-08-15T18:08:15Z")
How do you factor in the victim saying he pushed her? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/173 "2017-08-15T18:09:57Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > You are a Defense lawyer’s dream. you are the one talking in certainties where none exist. > [@](#): > > It was a definite push, and this is clear to pretty much _everyone_ but you. He shoves her. We define a shove as using one or both arms to push another person, which he clearly does here. Clearly. He uses his arms to push her. It is simply not possible that you do not see this. Between seconds 03 and 05, his right arm, then his left arm both come up and make a shoving motion. they do come up but at the low framerate and resolution of the video it is not clear at all whether that happens before the first contact or in response to the first contact. The angle of the video and the fact that the victim blocks the view of the jogger until the contact has already happened makes a lot of what you say guesswork at best. > [@](#): > > They slow it down. Slow motion. Between seconds 24 and 28. His arms come _up and out is a shoving motion_. And it’s in slow motion. before the first contact or in response to it? And how does she fall? does she not spin around on her axis and fall on her arse?, i.e. more like a slight body check than a push? > [@](#): > > I don’t think he tried to kill her. He may have been unaware that a bus was coming up behind them. But he was a dick and he pushed her. on the basis of that video alone you’d have a very hard time proving it beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law. There is certainly a chance he did it on purpose but I simply don’t subscribe to the certainly that others have. I reckon it is probably 80/20 accidental and he’s a dick for stopping. What odds would you give to it being accidental? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/174 "2017-08-15T18:16:02Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > How do you factor in the victim saying he pushed her? She probably saw and felt his arms come up at the point of collision, as shown on the video. Which is exactly what would happen if you saw yourself running into an unavoidable collision with someone and you have a split-second to do something about it, your arms come up in self-defence. Again, anyone who has played contact sports knows this. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/175 "2017-08-15T18:27:32Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > She probably saw and felt his arms come up at the point of collision, as shown on the video. Which is exactly what would happen if you saw yourself running into an unavoidable collision with someone and you have a split-second to do something about it, your arms come up in self-defence. Again, anyone who has played contact sports knows this. So your default is not assume what she says she experienced (which is supported with what the video shows) didn’t happen. Sure, it still could not be true, but why is the default to not believe her? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/176 "2017-08-15T18:37:55Z")
There’s one in every crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/177 "2017-08-15T18:55:39Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > So your default is not assume what she says she experienced (which is supported with what the video shows) didn’t happen. I disagree that the video conclusively shows a deliberate push. I absolutely believe she thinks she was pushed and have no reason to doubt her sincerity. The two are not mutually exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/178 "2017-08-15T18:58:50Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I disagree that the video conclusively shows a deliberate push. I absolutely believe she thinks she was pushed and have no reason to doubt her sincerity. The two are not mutually exclusive. So you think your assessment of an “inconclusive” video is probably more accurate than her assessment of the event which she experienced? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/179 "2017-08-15T19:02:45Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > There’s one in every crowd. Someone should push them out. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265/180 "2017-08-15T19:15:23Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I disagree that the video conclusively shows a deliberate push. I absolutely believe she thinks she was pushed and have no reason to doubt her sincerity. The two are not mutually exclusive. Who said conclusively? I said supported. It doesn’t invalidate what she said, so why not believe her? Nice use of “thinks” to cast doubt on her persona testimony. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jogger-pushes-pedestrian-into-bus-path-whaaa/793265.md?page=10)