# Johm Kerry: Evil sez Drudge **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 4, 2004, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249 "2004-08-04T04:55:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/21 "2004-08-04T12:51:46Z")
Many of Kerry’s shipmates were on the podium with him when he gave his acceptance speech. They served with him and nearly all support him. Not to be outdone, ALL of the people that remember Bush’s National Guard service in Alabama will be on the podium with him for his speech. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/22 "2004-08-04T13:29:24Z")
It’s rather amazing how the pubbies try to make shit stick to Kerry, and none of it ever really sticks. But they keep trying. Hey, maybe the next fantasy will turn out to be true, huh? Fascinating the lengths people will go to to keep asswipe Bush in office. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/23 "2004-08-04T14:26:10Z")
These SBVT people hurt the cause of veterans…do they now realize if younger people see a Vietnam Veteran with a Purple Heart, there will be many who’ll think “Did he get that medal for a serious war wound, or did he shoot himself in the ass to go home”. They are suggesting our nations highest military honors have all the value of Happy Meal prizes. John Kerry got three purple hearts…and I’m sure he didn’t order them from a Sears catalog. I find the story that he was given these three medals to force him out of the unit early laughable. “Uh we can’t stand this punk, he’s insubordinate, he’s dangerous…lets send him home a war hero after a few months while we sweat buckets and get shot at in the Mekong Delta for a couple more years”. Guess what, if they really wanted to get Lt. Kerry out of their unit, they wouldn’t have done that. And if Kerry’s commanders were really so venal as to give a kid a pile of medals in lieu of proper military discipline/training, who was really shirking their duty there? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/24 "2004-08-04T14:46:18Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Yeah, I saw them too. Question remains is that _all_ of Kerry’s crewmates? Since he wasn’t on the boat all that long, there couldn’t be that many more. Now, reading the Swift Boat guys, one gathers the _impression_ that at least _some_ of Kerry’s crewmates disagreed, but I don’t recall them actually naming any names. You know, I served in the army with a lot of pretty good guys who I thought were upstanding individuals, but if one of them called me tomorrow and said “Rick, I’m running for public office, would you come support me in a photo op at the convention?” I probably would decline. Just because you’re a good guy and a brave soldier doesn’t mean I want to work for a political campaign. I might not like your politics anyway, even if you were a terrific soldier. and even if you do, I have a job and a family. I have better things to do. I don’t work for free. And if you called me and said “Rick, this guy you didn’t like who you served with is running for public office and we’d like you to smear him in public by saying what a dink he was,” I would decline even if I did think he’s a dink. I question the character of someone who would smear their brother in arms for anything short of an outright crime or an out-and-out lie. That Kerry could get as many guys as he did strikes me as being pretty impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/25 "2004-08-04T15:02:03Z")
> [@](#): > > That Kerry could get as many guys as he did strikes me as being pretty impressive. By that same logic, wouldn’t it also be impressive that eleven of the nineteen other Swift Boat skippers would sign documents stating that Kerry was ‘unfit to be CinC?’ Including a rear admiral and several other people of high military rank? I think the debunking here is jumping the gun just a bit, since we don’t even know what evidence they have. Apparently, Drudge says he’ll be “Breaking the embargo” today and releasing details. Then we’ll know how much of it is BS. My gut feeling is that the real beef these guys have with Kerry is his claims after the war, many of which were scurrilous. But everyone knows about that, so there’s nothing there. But if they do have other evidence, we should examine it fairly and not prejudge them. Apparently, there is a group of twenty Medal of Honor winners who are prepared to issue a statement against Kerry as well. This is more startling. First, there aren’t that many living Medal of Honor recipients. Second, the Medal of Honor is only given for extreme acts of bravery, like acting in the face of what looks like certain death, continuing to attack while severely wounded, etc. When any Medal of Honor recipient speaks, he has my attention. So I’ll want to hear what they have to say as well. **Squink** said: > [@](#): > > Bush was in the military? I thought he was just in the Guard. Tell that to the guardsmen fighting in Iraq. :wally ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/26 "2004-08-04T15:18:22Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > By that same logic, wouldn’t it also be impressive that eleven of the nineteen other Swift Boat skippers would sign documents stating that Kerry was ‘unfit to be CinC?’ Including a rear admiral and several other people of high military rank? Old, old story. None of them served with Kerry, and almost none ever \*met \* him there. [The leader of this group didn’t take over the boat until after Kerry had returned home.](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_05/003846.php) But you can find that “impressive” if you like; that’s certainly no surprise. > [@](#): > > My gut feeling is that the real beef these guys have with Kerry is his claims after the war, many of which were scurrilous. But everyone knows about that, so there’s nothing there. But if they do have other evidence, we should examine it fairly and not prejudge them. What’s “scurrilous” - Kerry’s claims or these guys’ beef? You should also know by now, based on even a minimal understanding of the current American political process (oh, wait) that, if there were anything there at all, it would have been trumpeted in your favorite RW blogs long ago. You do realize, don’t you, that your remaining hopes for an anti-Kerry score rest on \*Drudge \* revealing the _facts_? Think on that, and its effects on your ability to build some credibility here, for a bit before continuing that smarmy “benefit of the doubt” line. > [@](#): > > [Tell that to the guardsmen fighting in Iraq. :wally You do also know that the situation regarding serving in Iraq is almost totally unlike that facing men serving in Vietnam. Best save your smilies for better-thought-out occasions. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/27 "2004-08-04T15:28:52Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > By that same logic, wouldn’t it also be impressive that eleven of the nineteen other Swift Boat skippers would sign documents stating that Kerry was ‘unfit to be CinC?’ Including a rear admiral and several other people of high military rank? Nope. They didn’t serve with Kerry. They are being paid to slime him and their major beef is that he blew the whistle on UDS attrocities after his service was over. > [@](#): > > I think the debunking here is jumping the gun just a bit, since we don’t even know what evidence they have. Apparently, Drudge says he’ll be “Breaking the embargo” today and releasing details. Then we’ll know how much of it is BS. Actually, no debunking is necessary since no credible allegation has even been made to begin with. The default assumption is that a book like this is fucking bullshit until proven otherwise. > [@](#): > > My gut feeling is that the real beef these guys have with Kerry is his claims after the war, many of which were scurrilous. Really. Which claims were “scurrilous?” > [@](#): > > But everyone knows about that, so there’s nothing there. But if they do have other evidence, we should examine it fairly and not prejudge them. No, the correct thing to do is dismiss it out of hand for the unsupported slander that it is. These guys didn’t even _know_ John Kerry. Everyone who served WITH him supports him. > [@](#): > > Apparently, there is a group of twenty Medal of Honor winners who are prepared to issue a statement against Kerry as well. Cite? > [@](#): > > This is more startling. How so? It’s not difficult at all to find Republicans among retired miltary. First, there aren’t that many living Medal of Honor recipients. Second, the Medal of Honor is only given for extreme acts of bravery, like acting in the face of what looks like certain death, continuing to attack while severely wounded, etc. When any Medal of Honor recipient speaks, he has my attention. So I’ll want to hear what they have to say as well. [/quote] Does that count Senator Bob Kerrey, who is a MOH recipeient and who endorses John Kerry? What the hell would some contrived band of Bush supporting MEOH recipients know about John Kerry’s service record anyway? > [@](#): > > **Squink** said: > Tell that to the guardsmen fighting in Iraq. :wally The Guard during Vietanam was not what it is today. In Bush’s day it was considered a haven from the war. There was no chance that Bush could have gone to Nam with the Texas ANG. That’s why he had his dad pull strings to jump him up on the waiting list inspite of his dismal test scores. And don’t slander John Kerry’s Vietnam service in one paragraph and then pretend like you give a fuck about soldiers in Iraq in the next. You either respect miltary service or you don’t. Pick a side. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/28 "2004-08-04T15:40:07Z")
> [@](#): > > A “fanny wound” was the highlight of Kerry’s much touted “no man left behind” Bronze Star. For the longest time I’ve thought he is Dukakis redux. Now I find out he’s Forrest Gump. Can’t say I’m shocked. What I am surprised about is that, unlike the fictional Gump, the real-life Mr Kerry elected to leave Vietnam after a measly four months. I know tooling around on a cigarette boat can take its toll on a man, but Help Me Rhonda, FOUR MONTHS in-country?! In light of this, I can’t say I find much credibility in his swift-boat comrades. Of either stripe. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/29 "2004-08-04T15:58:06Z")
[There is no depth to which the smearers will not sink.](http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2004/07/16/swift_boat_veterans/) Free day pass. > [@](#): > > Another theme promoted by the “Swift Boat Veterans for Truth” is that Kerry somehow exaggerated the injuries that led to his Purple Heart awards, or may even have inflicted them on himself. Kerry’s first wound occurred on Dec. 2, 1968, which was the very first night he went on a swift boat patrol. Although several witnesses who were present that night remember that Kerry’s arm was creased during a firefight with National Liberation Front guerrillas, **a former commander who wasn’t there has claimed that there was no report of enemy fire**. Or, let’s keep it on a basic level and go to [Ask Yahoo!](http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20040416.html) > [@](#): > > Kerry first met intense combat on December 2, 1968, when the small boat he skippered encountered the Viet Cong and engaged in a firefight. Kerry’s M-16 jammed, and as he bent down to get another weapon, a hot chunk of shrapnel flew into his arm. The wound didn’t cause Kerry to miss any duty, but it did qualify him for his first Purple Heart. > > Shrapnel again hit Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry, this time in his left thigh, on February 20, 1969. Kerry’s boat spotted enemy combatants on a riverbank and fired. A grenade hit the boat, causing shrapnel to bore into Kerry’s leg and earning him another Purple Heart. > > His last Purple Heart came from injuries sustained on March 13, 1969. A mine exploded under Kerry’s boat and wounded him in the right arm. Despite the injury, Kerry rescued a Green Beret and assisted other damaged boats while braving sniper fire from the riverbanks. This incident earned Kerry a Bronze Star with Combat V for “calmness, professionalism, and great personal courage under fire.” This final injury was the most severe and gave Kerry pain for years. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/30 "2004-08-04T16:20:42Z")
> [@El Cid Viscoso](#): > > What I am surprised about is that, unlike the fictional Gump, the real-life Mr Kerry elected to leave Vietnam after a measly four months. I know tooling around on a cigarette boat can take its toll on a man, but Help Me Rhonda, FOUR MONTHS in-country?! Um, you are aware, I hope, that he followed the directives that had been set down well in advance that said that once you had 3 Purple Hearts, you were free to go? And that it wasn’t a cigarette boat? I only ask because not everyone is working with any and/or all of the facts. Y’know, facts? Remember facts? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/31 "2004-08-04T16:32:09Z")
Yeah, a “cigarette boat” is what the Bush family recreates with when they’re summering at their Kennebunkport spread. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/32 "2004-08-04T16:34:43Z")
More specifically, as Poppy exhorted us Americans to copy his example during Desert Shield, they “recreate prudently”. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/33 "2004-08-04T16:43:28Z")
If I was getting shot at by complete strangers with no notice or warning for four months, I might just get sick of it too. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/34 "2004-08-04T17:03:10Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > IT SURE AS HELL WAS! And who the fuck do you think was fighting in Vietnam in the 60’s? John Kerry was, and there is no reason to put up with this crap from a bunch of lying weasels who’s sell their mothers to Saddam’s sons if’d it get Bush elected this year. Well, first, let me apologize for posting w/o my medicine. I was a little terse and unclear. Your comment struck me as belittling the service of our men and women in the national guard. I think that those folks deserve full credit for what they do. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/35 "2004-08-04T17:23:59Z")
> [@El Cid Viscoso](#): > > What I am surprised about is that, unlike the fictional Gump, the real-life Mr Kerry elected to leave Vietnam after a measly four months. I know tooling around on a cigarette boat can take its toll on a man, but Help Me Rhonda, FOUR MONTHS in-country?! And others spent more there. And others less. How long did you hang out in Vietnam? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/36 "2004-08-04T17:25:22Z")
**[Military Service Records of Senator John F. Kerry](http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/lit/election2004/docs.html)** Records of Senator Kerry’s military service in the U.S. Navy during the Vietnam War. I don’ tknow enough about military records t do these justice. But, here they are. Here in particular is his fitreps: [Fitness Reports](http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/jkerry/ftnsrpts.pdf) It’d take a neat trick to retroactively smear those who reccommended Kerry for his bronze and silver stars as liberal agitators. AFAICT, Kerry has Bush whupped hard when it comes to military service records. Especially when you consider the fact that Kerry volunteered to be sent to vietnam and GWB made choices that would decrease his likelihood of going. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/37 "2004-08-04T17:30:17Z")
> [@El Cid Viscoso](#): > > What I am surprised about is that, unlike the fictional Gump, the real-life Mr Kerry elected to leave Vietnam after a measly four months. Out of curiosity, exactly how long was Mr. Gump there? > [@El Cid Viscoso](#): > > I know tooling around on a cigarette boat can take its toll on a man, but Help Me Rhonda, FOUR MONTHS in-country?! Well, it’s not quite as long as our other rotten choice for PotUSA spent in-country in Viet Nam. ---
**Author:** ![Gamaliel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b487fb/32.png) [@Gamaliel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gamaliel)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/38 "2004-08-04T18:02:11Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > It’d take a neat trick to retroactively smear those who reccommended Kerry for his bronze and silver stars as liberal agitators. Especially since some of those same people are in SBVT now. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/39 "2004-08-04T18:09:49Z")
WOW, thanks for the link to the FitReps! His early reports aboard the USS GRIDLEY are very good, but in the period between 23 Mar 68 and 20 July 68 he takes a SERIOUS nosedive. He went from all OUTSTANDING to only one OUTSTANDING and the rest EXCELLENTs in his duty assignments. Bad. On the second page of this same report, he is marked “only” EXCELLENT in dependability and initiative under the Leadership section. Notsogood. The text is damningly faint praise as well, as one who is very familiar with these can attest: “performs his duties in an excellent to outstanding manner”, “He is recommended for promotion”. Not HIGHLY recommended, or IMMEDIATE promotion, or AHEAD OF HIS PEERS. It sounds great to the uninitiated. His report with the Swift Boats from 14 Dec 68 to 26 Mar 69 has a lot of marks on the back page “Above the Majority”, which is a dip from the USS Gridley reports. This is with a completely different type of unit, with a different commander, so those could be explained by many different things aside from him being a fuckup. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249/40 "2004-08-04T18:12:34Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > Well, first, let me apologize for posting w/o my medicine. I was a little terse and unclear. > Your comment struck me as belittling the service of our men and women in the national guard. > I think that those folks deserve full credit for what they do. Yes they do. It was late. I was pissy too. I think my extension of the SBVforT’s logic raised that very point. I could’ve been nicer about it. But those guys aren’t nice people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/johm-kerry-evil-sez-drudge/258249.md?page=3)