# John Adams--Supporter of King George?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 29, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-adams-supporter-of-king-george/333273 "2005-11-29T21:54:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-adams-supporter-of-king-george/333273/1 "2005-11-29T21:54:58Z")
Was John Adams a supporter of King George (as he seemed to have joined the defence team for British soldiers accused of [massacring Bostonians?](http://www.sjchs-history.org/massacre.html)) Not only that, but he doesn’t even to have tried to hide his shame - he actually bragged about lending aid and comfort to the enemy, with some warped sense that in doing so he was upholding American virtues: > [@](#): > > “I have reason to remember that fatal Night. The Part I took in Defense of Captn. Preston and the Soldiers, procured me Anxiety, and Obloquy enough. It was, however, one of the most gallant, generous, manly, and disinterested Actions of my whole Life, and one of the best Pieces of Service I ever rendered my Country. Judgement of Death against those Soldiers would have been as foul a Stain upon this Country as the Execution of the Quakers or Witches, anciently. As the Evidence was, the Verdict of the Jury was exactly right.” > –John Adams, Diary entry, March 5, 1773 And what about John Adams’ junior counsel in the matter, Josiah Quincy Jr.? His father, a true patriot, gently tried to dissauade his son from acting in such an un-American way: > [@](#): > > "My dear Son, > “I am under great affliction, at hearing the bitterest reproaches uttered against you, for having become an advocate for those criminals who are charged with the murder of their fellow-citizens. Good God! Is it possible? I will not believe it…” > “Your anxious and distressed parent, > Josiah Quincy.” And what did Junior do? he had the gall to try to justify it, by saying he had been urged to do it by several others who shared in his hatred of America: > [@](#): > > "Honored Sir, > “…I refused all engagement, until advised and urged to undertake it, by an Adams, a Hancock, a Molineux, a Cushing, a Henshaw, a Pemberton, a Warren, a Cooper, and a Phillips…I dare affirm, that you, and this whole people will one day REJOICE, that I became an advocate for the aforesaid “criminals,” charged with the murder of our fellow citizens.” > “I am, truly and affectionately, > your son, > Josiah Quincy Jun.” Pack of traitors, all of them. All of them should have been strung up in front of the Court House. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-adams-supporter-of-king-george/333273/2 "2005-11-29T22:03:46Z")
I’m assuming that this is a parody of this thread: > **[Ramsey Clark--Supporter of Saddam??](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=346858)** > > Is Ramsey Clark a supporter of Sadam Hussein (as he has seemed to have joined Saddam Hussein’s defence team?) I would say the difference is in the totality of their actions, in that John Adams actively worked for the cause of American independence against Britain, while Ramsey Clark has, for the last 20 years, consistantly opposed American policy, and defended its enemies, even when they were genocidal or evil by any standard. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-adams-supporter-of-king-george/333273/3 "2005-11-30T00:14:44Z")
[Moderator Hat ON] Northern Piper, if you’re doing a parody of a thread, please link to the original so people know what the heck you’re talking about. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-adams-supporter-of-king-george/333273/4 "2005-11-30T00:37:21Z")
Sorry, **Gaudere** , didn’t know that was required: [Ramsey Clark: Supporter of Saddam??](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=346858) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-adams-supporter-of-king-george/333273/5 "2005-11-30T05:17:02Z")
This is absurd. As **John Corrado** , **Ravenman** , and even **Brain Glutton** , make clear in the original thread, Ramsey Clark has spent the latter part of his life traveling around the world to represent madmen and dictators. He does not only represent them legally, but does PR work on their behalf, PR work which seems to arise from a genuine support of their actions. To compare this loon with John Adams is slander. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-adams-supporter-of-king-george/333273/6 "2005-11-30T14:59:41Z")
Piper, that’s a really good OP- very well researched and put together. But can I ask a favor? Could you spend maybe 1/10th of the time you took getting the Adams and Quincy quotes together, and devote that time to researching Ramsey Clark, please? If Clark’s prior history were a tabula rasa, your OP would be perfect, and I’d be on your side denouncing any who thought Clark’s actions traitorous. But to make your Adams analogy fit the facts, Adams would have to have: A) Spend the French and Indian war in France, protesting the excesses of the English government in prosecuting the war; B) After the French and Indian war, work for the defense of Native Americans accused of scalping thousands of American settlers; C) After the Stamp Act, praised the British government for its “fair and just” handling of the crisis; D) Responded to the Declaration of Independence with a Statement of Rebuttal which showed Thomas Jefferson to be a slave-schtupping hypocrite while George was God’s Chosen Ruler of Good Men. Now, if all of _that_ were the case, I’d consider the Adams-Ramsey analogy apt. And if all of that were the case, I don’t think I’d consider Adams much of a ‘patriot’. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-adams-supporter-of-king-george/333273/7 "2005-11-30T20:48:11Z")
Also remember the (failed) American strategy of trying to favor the king over parliament. The Crown, after all, had been quite helpful in setting up the 13 Colonies and had been rather indulgent. It was Parliament which kept levying taxes and breaking up the colonial councils, even if paliamentary minions were officially “Royal” Governors. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-adams-supporter-of-king-george/333273/8 "2005-11-30T21:25:03Z")
Good greif, what is next – holding up Pierre Salinger as being the modern-day Paul Revere because he claimed to inform the public that the US Navy shot down TWA flight 800? There’s not much doubt that John Adams was sane and principled. There are serious questions about Clark’s principles. There’s no doubt that Salinger had lost it.