# John Allen Muhammad sentenced to death **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 24, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-allen-muhammad-sentenced-to-death/215022 "2003-11-24T16:04:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-allen-muhammad-sentenced-to-death/215022/21 "2003-11-25T11:13:47Z")
**kasuo** , there is such a thing a life sentence without possibility of parole. It’s not even remotely unheard of, nor would it be unusual given the stature and unmitigatedly terrible nature of Mr. Muhammed’s crime. Ted Kaczynski got that, if memory serves. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-allen-muhammad-sentenced-to-death/215022/22 "2003-11-25T12:49:30Z")
I live about 5 miles from where the Ashland shooting took place, and my parents live very close to the shooting sight in Spotsylvania. The terror brought by the events was very, very real, but I still am not a proponent of the death penalty and would rather see it abolished. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-allen-muhammad-sentenced-to-death/215022/23 "2003-11-25T12:51:22Z")
I live about 5 miles from where the Ashland shooting took place, and my parents live very close to the shooting sight in Spotsylvania. The terror brought by the events was very, very real, but I still am not a proponent of the death penalty and would rather see it abolished. Incidently, life without the possibility of parole is a sentencing option here in Virginia, and has been since Gov. Allen was in office. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-allen-muhammad-sentenced-to-death/215022/24 "2003-11-25T14:18:29Z")
Life without parole does not mean he can’t kill someone within the prison. Like another prisoner or an employee. It also doesn’t mean he can’t escape and kill again. Three people would be alive today if Ted Bundy hadn’t escaped prison. I always tell people “If you don’t believe in the death penalty, why don’t you have a convicted killer come and live with you and be responsible for them for the rest of their lives?” I swear, if the 9/11 hijackers had somehow survived, there would be people saying “They shouldn’t be sentenced to death.” ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-allen-muhammad-sentenced-to-death/215022/25 "2003-11-25T14:39:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Annie-Xmas \* > I swear, if the 9/11 hijackers had somehow survived, there would be people saying “They shouldn’t be sentenced to death.” You’re quite right and I’d be one of them. My country has removed the death penalty from the statues by referendum by a large majority. We have had terrorists as you well know. In the case of terrorists you make martyrs when you kill them. You make your own situation worse not better. If somebody raped and then killed my mother I’d want to kill them but I wouldn’t want my state to. I disagree with the death penalty 100%. So when is this going to head to GD? ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-allen-muhammad-sentenced-to-death/215022/26 "2003-11-25T15:11:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Annie-Xmas \* > \*\* > I always tell people “If you don’t believe in the death penalty, why don’t you have a convicted killer come and live with you and be responsible for them for the rest of their lives?” > \*\* That’s a bit of a specious argument. Some people think we should kill all rapists (even though the law says otherwise). Do **you** (assuming you agree with the current law…that rapists should be incarcerated and not executed) wish to have said rapist come live with **you** for 10-20 years? As far as prison escapes…so what? Has anyone incarcerated for a **non capital** offense ever escaped prison and then gone to to assault or kill someone? The answer is yes. Ergo…we shouldn’t take a chance on that happening and we should execute **all** prisoners (or all prisoners convicted of violent crimes)? ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-allen-muhammad-sentenced-to-death/215022/27 "2003-11-25T15:13:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > \*\* > If somebody raped and then killed my mother I’d want to kill them but I wouldn’t want my state to. I disagree with the death penalty 100%. > \*\* Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-allen-muhammad-sentenced-to-death/215022/28 "2003-11-25T15:29:07Z")
This is why all future snipers should pick their states carefully. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-allen-muhammad-sentenced-to-death/215022/29 "2003-11-25T16:23:58Z")
My objection to the death penalty is confused, I admit. A) I know that if he’s put to death he will never, ever have a chance to kill again. but B) It’s so **final**. How the hell does the state make good if a mistake is made. It’s that possibility of error that fuels my death penalty discomfort. If it were absolutely _certain_ that the accused was guilty I’d be OK on it. But when are we ever that certain of anything? I’m certainly not. ---
**Author:** ![Rib\_Eye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Rib\_Eye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rib_Eye)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-allen-muhammad-sentenced-to-death/215022/30 "2003-11-25T16:40:38Z")
John Stuart Mill said it better than I ever could: “When there has been brought home to any one, by conclusive evidence, the greatest crime known to the law; and when the attendant circumstances suggest no palliation of the guilt, no hope that the culprit may even yet not be unworthy to live among mankind, nothing to make it probable that the crime was an exception to his general character rather than a consequence of it, then I confess it appears to me that to deprive the criminal of the life of which he has proved himself to be unworthy–solemnly to blot him out from the fellowship of mankind and from the catalogue of the living–is the most appropriate as it is certainly the most impressive, mode in which society can attach to so great a crime the penal consequences which for the security of life it is indispensable to annex to it.” You can read the enitre text of the speech this comes from here: [http://ethics.acusd.edu/Mill.html](http://ethics.acusd.edu/Mill.html) I highly reccommend it to anyone on the fence about capital punishment. Ginger, I’m not saying I would line-up to take my whacks at this guy either. I’ve wasted enough time on him already, but I might tune in to watch an internet simulcast of the beat down. Personally I have no problem with satisfying a societal need for revenge while exterminating human filth. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-allen-muhammad-sentenced-to-death/215022/31 "2003-11-25T16:55:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Loopus \* > \*\*You don’t think it’s morally better to kill a murderer than to kill an innocent man? > > You don’t think it’s morally better for the state to kill a man who has been duly tried and convicted by a jury of his peers than for one man to kill people just because he thinks they need killing? > > I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. \*\* (S)He’s not saying what you’re saying at all. The choice is **not** between “killing a murderer” and “killing an innocent man”. The choice is between “killing a murderer” and “incarcerating a murderer.” You can decide which one is morally better on your own. If I was a god fearing man, I think I’d have doubts about choosing the former, however. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-allen-muhammad-sentenced-to-death/215022/32 "2003-11-25T17:59:18Z")
**Moderator’s Notes:** There was a thread here last week about _this very guy_ being found guilty. [I said in that one that there was no way in hell we were going to have a capital punishment debate in MPSIMS](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=223854). And ya know what? **We still aren’t**. Take your debate to the proper forum. This is **not** a request. ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-allen-muhammad-sentenced-to-death/215022/33 "2003-11-25T18:36:54Z")
Sorry, **UncleBeer**. I started a [thread in GD](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=225392) in case anyone still wants to debate. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-allen-muhammad-sentenced-to-death/215022/34 "2003-11-25T19:44:34Z")
There’s an interesting article here [about why the jurors voted the way they did](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/25/national/25SNIP.html). The main factor, in Muhammed’s case. seems to have been the lack of remorse and the belief that he would still be a danger to those around him. ---
**Author:** ![dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorkusmalorkusmafia/32/7266_2.png) [@dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorkusmalorkusmafia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-allen-muhammad-sentenced-to-death/215022/35 "2003-11-25T20:10:39Z")
Well, I was at the Seven Corners (Home Depot) shooting. It was really frightening. I heard everything but couldn’t see anything clearly since I was standing outside the storefront next door. I will be posting in Loopus’s thread since this isn’t a forum for debate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-allen-muhammad-sentenced-to-death/215022.md?page=1)