# John Ashcroft is visiting my town. I need a fuckin' shower. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 22, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075 "2003-07-22T02:27:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075/1 "2003-07-22T02:27:57Z")
Noted hunk of sterile homophobe John Ashcroft is polluting my city even as I sit here in total disgust that we allowed him to get off the plane and sully our great state with his smarmy, creepy, soul-less aura of religiously repressed sexuality and self-righteous, woman-hating, anti-choice message of hate and intolerance. Somebody pass the janitor in a drum–no, make it two–'cuz I need a serious hosing down to get the schmutz off my skin and out of every oriface. Break out the fire hoses and scour the streets where he walked. Burn the tablecloths he ate on and the sheets he sweat on whilst tossing in delirium from sweet dreams of dismembered kittens and branding irons. Reupholster the chairs he sat on, melt down the utensils he ate with, remove every trace that he was here. I should have known he was here. Our beautiful, unusually warm weather that has been a blessing for the past month suddenly turned a nasty Ashcrofty gray, and a miserable drizzle began to fall. Dogs began whimpering and howling outright in the night, calicos ran for their very lives. I must send a congratulatory letter to our city assembly for passing an anti- Patriot Act resolution just last week. A slap in the face for this snake oil salesman. My only regret is that he didn’t go salmon fishing and get eaten by a fuckin’ grizzly. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075/2 "2003-07-22T02:45:16Z")
That is what America needs. More reasonable criticism! ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075/3 "2003-07-22T03:40:23Z")
Gee, **Chefguy** , why don’t you tell us how you REALLY feel? ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_of\_the\_CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Earl\_of\_the\_CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_of_the_CC)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075/4 "2003-07-22T03:42:45Z")
Right, Brutus. Right. I mean, can’t Chefguy read the name of this forum? It says right there “Great Debates”. Oh wait… No it doesn’t. It says ''The BBQ Pit". ---
**Author:** ![Hauky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/0ea827/32.png) [@Hauky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hauky)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075/5 "2003-07-22T05:21:44Z")
I just want to say that **Chefguy** uses words real purty-like. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075/6 "2003-07-22T17:07:43Z")
Two dozen Patriot Act protesters picketed the hotel where he was speaking. Later, when he was having lunch with “real Merkins” at a local pizza joint, the Secret Service got their noses out of joint because people at the next table were loudly toasting civil liberties and the Bill of Rights. Does this speak volumes about what is wrong with our government today? He was invited to attend the ACLU-sponsored event with Molly Ivins, but declined, muttering something about having monkeys to bugger and evildoers to get undone. I recognize that **Brutus** was only being funny. But seriously, the time for reasonableness in this country is at an end. We have an out-of-control attorney general flogging the rights of the people and shredding the Bill of Rights at every opportunity. And he’s not satisfied with the present powers, but wants to _expand_ these powers to allow the government even more intrusion into the private lives of American citizens. Government abuse is not justified by terrorism or acts of war. We have found this out time after time, WWI, interment of Japanese Americans, and the McCarthy hearings being prime examples. Abridgement of civil liberties fixes nothing, it only results in…abridgement of civil liberties. One cannot reason with unreasonable people. We need to get up off our apathetic asses and throw these bastards out of office. Oh, by the way, our state legislature (which is overwhelmingly Republican) has also passed a resolution against the Patriot Act, which passed 56-1 (both houses). ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075/7 "2003-07-22T18:22:45Z")
some pizzas are improved by calico toppings. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![summerbreeze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@summerbreeze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/summerbreeze)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075/8 "2003-07-23T01:36:06Z")
**Chefguy** is perfectly reasonable. When everything the Founders intended this country to be is under assault by a paranoid, right-wing, fundamentalist megalomanic in the employ of a moron, the only sane thing to do is exactly what **Chefguy** describes – only we shouldn’t stop with his city. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075/9 "2003-07-23T01:46:49Z")
Chefguy is right on the money, if perhaps a little under-stated and unnecessarily polite. We’re not talking about your average right-wing, corporate dupe, dumb-fuck like Dubya Bush. We’re talking about the fucking anti-Christ here. Pure evil embodied in a man-like form. A veritable waste of space and time. May he be flushed out of what is left of our justice system ASAP. You fuck. Ass-Cloth. Yeah, I’m talking to you Johnny Freedom-Fucker. Fuck off. Oh-- and I want my Bill of Rights back when you’re done shitting all over it. Get one of your sick minions to lick it clean first, okay? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075/10 "2003-07-23T16:31:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Noted hunk of sterile homophobe… Sterile, Gracie? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075/11 "2003-07-23T16:56:12Z")
So here’s what I want to know: If everyone hates the Patriot Act so much, then why did it pass Congress so overwhelmingly? I find it easy to live in the shadow of the Patriot Act. I just don’t do anything that would cause me to come up on radar. It seems pretty easy to understand that if you don’t do anything illegal you don’t have anything to worry about. So, that being said, what’s the big flirkin’ deal? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075/12 "2003-07-23T17:06:50Z")
> [@](#): > > I find it easy to live in the shadow of the Patriot Act. I just don’t do anything that would cause me to come up on radar. It seems pretty easy to understand that if you don’t do anything illegal you don’t have anything to worry about. Just don’t criticize the government because that’s now grounds for considering you a terrorist, according to the Patriot Act, which has such a nebulous definiton that nonviolent protest can included. The Electronic Freedom forum summarizes the provisions of the Patriot Act: > [@](#): > > Chief Concerns > The EFF’s chief concerns with the USAPA include: > > Expanded Surveillance With Reduced Checks and Balances. USAPA expands all four traditional tools of surveillance – wiretaps, search warrants, pen/trap orders and subpoenas. Their counterparts under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) that allow spying in the U.S. by foreign intelligence agencies have similarly been expanded. This means: > Be careful what you put in that Google search. The government may now spy on web surfing of innocent Americans, including terms entered into search engines, by merely telling a judge anywhere in the U.S. that the spying could lead to information that is “relevant” to an ongoing criminal investigation. The person spied on does not have to be the target of the investigation. This application must be granted and the government is not obligated to report to the court or tell the person spied upon what it has done. > Nationwide roving wiretaps. FBI and CIA can now go from phone to phone, computer to computer without demonstrating that each is even being used by a suspect or target of an order. The government may now serve a single wiretap, FISA wiretap or pen/trap order on any person or entity nationwide, regardless of whether that person or entity is named in the order. The government need not make any showing to a court that the particular information or communication to be acquired is relevant to a criminal investigation. In the pen/trap or FISA situations, they do not even have to report where they served the order or what information they received. The EFF believes that the opportunities for abuse of these broad new powers are immense. For pen/trap orders, ISPs or others who are not named in the do have authority under the law to request certification from the Attorney General’s office that the order applies to them, but they do not have the authority to request such confirmation from a court. > ISPs hand over more user information. The law makes two changes to increase how much information the government may obtain about users from their ISPs or others who handle or store their online communications. First it allows ISPs to voluntarily hand over all “non-content” information to law enforcement with no need for any court order or subpoena. sec. 212. Second, it expands the records that the government may seek with a simple subpoena (no court review required) to include records of session times and durations, temporarily assigned network (I.P.) addresses; means and source of payments, including credit card or bank account numbers. secs. 210, 211. > New definitions of terrorism expand scope of surveillance. One new definition of terrorism and three expansions of previous terms also expand the scope of surveillance. They are 1) § 802 definition of “domestic terrorism” (amending 18 USC §2331), which raises concerns about legitimate protest activity resulting in conviction on terrorism charges, especially if violence erupts; adds to 3 existing definition of terrorism (int’l terrorism per 18 USC §2331, terrorism transcending national borders per 18 USC §2332b, and federal terrorism per amended 18 USC §2332b(g)(5)(B)). These new definitions also expose more people to surveillance (and potential “harboring” and “material support” liability, §§ 803, 805). ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075/13 "2003-07-23T17:22:34Z")
So let 'em look. They might find out that I like porn, and oh dear, I’m interested in high-energy physics and live right near TMI. What an earthshattering revelation that would be. I’ll expect the G-Men anytime now. I’ll even have coffee for them. If they tap my phone they’ll be equally aghast. All I talk about is my eventual conquest of the East Coast. No big deal. That’s not even enough to slap the cuffs on. I hope my sarcasm is noted. You know, given the “startling” revelations that J. Edgar had thousands of files on people a long time ago, this doesn’t concern me. It’s just more of the same, only updated for the modern age and aboveboard instead of hidden in a bunch of locked file cabinets. _shrug_ Big whoopdee-ding-dong. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075/14 "2003-07-23T17:29:40Z")
Incidentally, I always assume someone is watching. I always have. Usually, that’s because someone is. It could be the cops, it could be a neighbor, it could be your husband/wife. But it doesn’t matter, because when you really get down to it, nothing’s really a secret anyway. It’s only a matter of time before whatever it is you’re trying to hide is found out. You can’t even begin to fathom the stuff you hear when you see 500 people a day in a restaurant, especially after they get to know you. I knew more about some of my customers than their spouses did, and I wasn’t even digging. Imagine what the cops can do. The moral is, as I said earlier, don’t do anything illegal and you have nothing to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075/15 "2003-07-23T17:43:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Imagine what the cops can do. The moral is, as I said earlier, don’t do anything illegal and you have nothing to worry about. But as I said, the definition of “illegal” is being expanded to cover speech critical of the government. How soon before fear of terrorism leads the government to limit or eliminate Constitutional protections? It’s happened before–the Palmer Raids, the Japanese concentration camps–and it could easily happen again. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075/16 "2003-07-23T18:00:57Z")
I see that the usual suspects are taking **Chefguy** ’s advice well to heart - > [@](#): > > But seriously, the time for reasonableness in this country is at an end. What’s that you are crying? “Wolf”, was it? This is almost as bad as the other thread crying that fascism was just around the corner when the White House got a new e-mail system. I can see only two alternatives - either you really believe this tripe, in which case you are a bunch of paranoid hysterics, or you are just saying this in an effort to whip up public feeling, in which case your brains have turned to mush. The country survived Nixon, and the political system survived Clinton. I suspect your city will even survive a visit from the Attorney General. What won’t survive is the credibility of the loony left. Take a deep breath, wipe the foam off your chin, and hustle yourselves down to Home Depot, where you can pick out for yourself a nice, shiny new grip. You need it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Tygr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df788c/32.png) [@Tygr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tygr)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075/17 "2003-07-23T18:05:32Z")
For the sake of fighting my own ignorance on the subject, can ANYONE point me to a reasonably un-biased site that catalogs the views of Ashcroft which lead to such opinions of his character as expressed in the OP? And, for that matter, a similarly un-biased site critiquing the Patriot Act (preferrably with rebuttals, or at least LINKS to rebuttals)? This does NOT include the EFF. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075/18 "2003-07-23T18:41:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*So let 'em look. They might find out that I like porn, and oh dear, I’m interested in high-energy physics and live right near TMI. What an earthshattering revelation that would be. I’ll expect the G-Men anytime now. I’ll even have coffee for them. \*\* Please don’t invite them in for coffee until I’ve had a chance to finish cleaning the kitchen. 😛 :smack: > [@](#): > > \*\*If they tap my phone they’ll be equally aghast. All I talk about is my eventual conquest of the East Coast. No big deal. That’s not even enough to slap the cuffs on. > > I hope my sarcasm is noted. \*\* They’ll be bored with the drivel my mother spouts long before they’ll start caring about your plans. \*\* > [@](#): > > You know, given the “startling” revelations that J. Edgar had thousands of files on people a long time ago, this doesn’t concern me. It’s just more of the same, only updated for the modern age and aboveboard instead of hidden in a bunch of locked file cabinets. > > _shrug_ Big whoopdee-ding-dong. \*\* Uh, sweetie, there’s a huge difference between J. Edgar’s files and the USA-PATRIOT Act. J. Edgar may have used surveillance of questionable legality, but that was restricted to surveillance by FBI agents, and the information received was mostly used to harrass the subject. USA-PATRIOT encourages citizens to spy on _each other_. Should the government decide that the information received is credible, criminal charges may be filed. So, if the neighbors decide you’re an Arab, and they think you’re building a bomb, they can call the FBI. If the FBI comes over and finds the bag of fertilizer in the garage out back, they can arrest you and prosecute you for building a bomb. The fertilizer is all the evidence they need, because, as we all know, fertilizer = bomb. :rolleyes: My point is that just because you think you’re not doing anything illegal doesn’t mean it’s so. What with the warm-and-fuzzy post-9/11 legislation, there are some things that will merit at least an investigation. In the meantime, your military career will be over, your reputation will be shot, and we’ll be bankrupt from all the legal fees. And quite frankly, I don’t feel like explaining to your mother why you’re in jail. And for those who think it can’t happen here, [here are 34 people who know otherwise](http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/07/21/patriotact.abuse.ap/index.html). And these were just the confirmed cases. God knows how much it really happens. Robin ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-is-visiting-my-town-i-need-a-fuckin-shower/190075/19 "2003-07-23T19:44:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*don’t do anything illegal and you have nothing to worry about. \*\* You and I don’t decide what’s illegal. They do. Like being a Muslim.