# John Ashcroft rescues the Constitution from attack by "civil libertarians" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 8, 2003, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374 "2003-01-08T21:32:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/1 "2003-01-08T21:32:54Z")
The [Fourth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the Commander in Chief’s right to hold an American-born enemy who was captured in a zone of active combat in a foreign theater of conflict](http://pacer.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinion.pdf/027338.P.pdf). A phalanx of organizations attacked the Constitution and tried to take this authority away from the President. The list of _Amici Curiae in support of appellees_ goes 7 pages! These groups were united in a vast conspiracy to undermine our Constitutional rights! _(boo! hiss!)_ Fortunately, the heroic John Ashcroft rode into town in the nick of time. All by himself, he stood up against this mob and defended the Constitution! He saved our civil liberties! _(tada!)_ Will any of those who called Ashcroft names now apologize? Hmmm… ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/2 "2003-01-08T21:39:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*A phalanx of organizations attacked the Constitution and tried to take this authority away from the President. The list of _Amici Curiae in support of appellees_ goes 7 pages! These groups were united in a vast conspiracy to undermine our Constitutional rights! _(boo! hiss!)_ \*\* Like the terrorists, these organizations must have been motivated solely by a hatred of freedom. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/3 "2003-01-08T21:43:38Z")
So is today Backwards Day and nobody told me? “Ashcroft defends liberty”–what’s next–“Trent Lott joins NAACP”? ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/4 "2003-01-08T21:44:23Z")
I really wish we would have gotten the Smilie that threw up, it’s so apropos. Ashcroft is an oral sperm bank for turkey insemination. I’ll concede that the Constitution and the president’s rights have remained untarnished, but the rights of the non-americans have got the brunt. O well, they should’ve known better for defending their homeland. When will they learn? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/5 "2003-01-08T21:54:37Z")
And of course, numbers are everything when it comes to _amicus_ briefs. So Ashcroft’s standing up to such a mob nearly singlehandedly took great courage, especially on the hostile terrain of the Fourth Circuit. :rolleyes: So, **last month** , just which of **our** Constitutional rights were this mob trying to deprive us of? Name one or two, please. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/6 "2003-01-08T21:56:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stpauler \* > \*\*…the rights of the non-americans have got the brunt. O well, they should’ve known better for defending their homeland. \*\* Seriously, as I understand the decision, an American-born enemy can defend his homeland against America, but if he’s captured the US has the right to treat him the same as any other enemy captive. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/7 "2003-01-08T22:01:41Z")
I am drowning in a sea of partisan politics sarcasm, and am losing track of who’s on which side. What’s the rant about, for starters? 😕 Check one. 1. John Ashcroft is a hero who is being denigrated as an ass by clueless idjits. 2. John Ashcroft is an ass who is being mistaken for a hero by clueless idjits. Thank you. Anyway, Cliff’s Notes version of the court decision. [http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/01/08/enemy.combatants/](http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/01/08/enemy.combatants/) > [@](#): > > Americans may be held as ‘enemy combatants,’ appeals court rules > > Government welcomes ruling upholding presidential power > Wednesday, January 8, 2003 Posted: 3:38 PM EST (2038 GMT) > > RICHMOND, Virginia (CNN) – A federal appeals court Wednesday ruled President Bush has the authority to designate U.S. citizens as enemy combatants in military custody if they are deemed a threat to national security. > > “Judicial review does not disappear during wartime but the review of battlefield captures in overseas conflicts is a highly deferential one,” said the opinion by the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. > > The ruling, which reverses a lower court and dismisses the complaint of attorneys for Hamdi, was immediately hailed by the government. > > “I applaud today’s decision which reaffirms the president’s authority to capture and detain individuals such as Hamdi who join our enemies on the battlefield to fight against America and its allies,” said Attorney General John Ashcroft. > > "Today’s ruling is an important victory for the president’s ability to protect the American people in times of war. > > Hamdi, who was born in Louisiana but grew up in Saudi Arabia, is being held in a Navy brig in the Norfolk, Virginia Naval Station. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/8 "2003-01-08T22:08:58Z")
Now, **RT** , don’t say anything to distract **December**. Remember, he only has one hand to type with. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/9 "2003-01-08T22:10:26Z")
**Goosie** , our DLF holds the first position. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/10 "2003-01-08T22:11:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > \*\*I am drowning in a sea of partisan politics sarcasm, and am losing track of who’s on which side. What’s the rant about, for starters? > > 😕 > > Check one. > > 1. John Ashcroft is a hero who is being denigrated as an ass by clueless idjits. > 2. John Ashcroft is an ass who is being mistaken for a hero by clueless idjits. > \*\* I’m glad I’m not the only one that was thinking this. IMO Ashcroft is a dick but if he defended the constitution on this occasion then good for him. What’s the rant about? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/11 "2003-01-08T22:18:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > \*\*I am drowning in a sea of partisan politics sarcasm, and am losing track of who’s on which side. What’s the rant about, for starters? \*\* My serious position is that: _Although a number of people and groups have arrogantly attacked Ashcroft for allegedly undermining the Constitution, in this case the court decided that he was Constitutionally right and his know-it-all critics were wrong._ The bit about Ashcroft being a Lone Ranger-type hero and defeating a Vast Conspiracy was meant to be humor. Since it needed to be explained, it must not have been funny. ☹ **RTFirefly** , three Declaration of Independence rights that were protected by this decision, at least to some degree, are _life_, _liberty_ and _the pursuit of happiness._ ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/12 "2003-01-08T22:28:26Z")
He asked for _constitutional_ rights. The ones protected by the Supreme Law of the Land, not by a mission statement. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/13 "2003-01-08T22:36:27Z")
I’m going to sleep better tonight. John Ashcroft is watching out for me, swinging over the rooftops in red and blue spandex, ensuring my liberty. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/14 "2003-01-08T22:44:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*My serious position is that: > > _Although a number of people and groups have arrogantly attacked Ashcroft for allegedly undermining the Constitution, in this case the court decided that he was Constitutionally right and his know-it-all critics were wrong._ \*\* Well, but so? Maybe the court is also wrong. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/15 "2003-01-08T22:50:03Z")
**december’s** plight has moved me to a charitable gesture. As I am somewhat unfamiliar with such, I can only hope it will be received in the same spirit. **december** , you are a right wing person. This is not inherently wrong, but it is associated with the etiology of _humor impairment_, a kind of mental anemia caused by a lack of irony. It is unfortunate that precisely those persons most in need are the ones deprived, but there you have it. Life isn’t fair, but we’re working on it. John Ashcroft is to humor as a black hole is to matter. Cholera is funny. Sen. Frist dismembering adopted kittens is funny. You, yourself, have been the originator of much humor, albeit unintentionally, as when you defend the intelligence of Ronald Reagan. But John Ashcroft simply isn’t funny. A good rule of thumb would be: can you picture the person in question starting out “So a rabbi, a minister and a priest walk into a bar…”? If you cannot, that person likely suffers from Ashcroft’s Syndrome. For an instance, Scalia might, at rare moments of humanity, be funny. Rehnquist, of course, could not. I hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/16 "2003-01-08T23:07:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \ ***december** , you are a right wing person. This is not inherently wrong, but it is associated with the etiology of _humor impairment_, a kind of mental anemia caused by a lack of irony. Cite? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/17 "2003-01-08T23:15:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*My serious position is that: > > _Although a number of people and groups have arrogantly attacked Ashcroft for allegedly undermining the Constitution, in this case the court decided that he was Constitutionally right and his know-it-all critics were wrong._\*\* Damn those arrogant civil libertarians, arrogantly demanding that Americans be allowed lawyers and trials when they’re held for a crime. Arrogant know-it-alls! Next thing you know they’ll arrogantly expect to be allowed to publicly criticize the president! Terrorists! ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/18 "2003-01-08T23:16:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \* > \*\*I’m going to sleep better tonight. > John Ashcroft is watching out for me, > swinging over the rooftops in red and blue spandex, > ensuring my liberty. \*\* Actually Congressman Dan Rostenkowski was the man of steal. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/19 "2003-01-08T23:21:45Z")
[Nauseated voice] Oh my God! I don’t wanna think about John Ashcroft in spandex! Aagh! [/Nauseated voice] ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374/20 "2003-01-08T23:30:28Z")
Well, thank you for _sharing!!_ Now I gotta go make the yawn that splashes! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-rescues-the-constitution-from-attack-by-civil-libertarians/147374.md?page=2)