# John Ashcroft, \*you\* are a fucking moron **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2004, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-you-are-a-fucking-moron/247670 "2004-05-29T12:22:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-you-are-a-fucking-moron/247670/21 "2004-05-29T20:36:35Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Refresh my memory-who was he and what did he do? Nixon’s AG. Besides being convicted of conspiracy, obstruction of justice and perjury in the Watergate scandal he also engaged in a lot of stuff like illegal wiretapping and trumping up bogus charges against war protesters. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-you-are-a-fucking-moron/247670/22 "2004-05-29T20:46:33Z")
Incidentally, Sam Dash died today. For the young’uns, he was the lead prosecutor for Watergate. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-you-are-a-fucking-moron/247670/23 "2004-05-29T21:10:54Z")
> [@Legolamb](#): > > As Britain is fully signed up to the International Human Rights Act, we cannot deport a suspect if his life will be in danger (Tony Blair is also a fucking moron for not thinking before signing on the dotted line on that one too). What is the “International Human Rights Act”? In my years of study of international law I never heard of it, and a google search doesn’t turn up anything useful. Why did signing a treaty that limited deportation make Blair a fucking moron? Isn’t it the European Convention on Human Rights (as interpreted by the European Court of Human Rights) that prohibits the UK from extraditing suspects who might face the death penalty? I don’t think Blair had any choice about signing such a law. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-you-are-a-fucking-moron/247670/24 "2004-05-29T21:23:02Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Nixon’s AG. Besides being convicted of conspiracy, obstruction of justice and perjury in the Watergate scandal he also engaged in a lot of stuff like illegal wiretapping and trumping up bogus charges against war protesters. Ah, right. Thanks. No wonder I couldn’t remember him, with all the scum that Nixon had working for him. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-you-are-a-fucking-moron/247670/25 "2004-05-29T21:25:33Z")
The U.K. is not the only country with this policy by any means, nor is the U.S. the only country that has difficulty gaining extraditions because of the death penalty. [Here](http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/engAMR511712001?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES%5CUSA) is an Amnesty International report on the issue. The U.S. has been known to find ways around this. We are by no means shy about kidnapping people we want. From the cited report: > [@](#): > > There is a history of US conduct that fuels concern in this area. In June [of 2001], Juan Garza became only the second federal death row prisoner to be executed in the USA in nearly four decades. There is evidence that the US authorities engineered his original deportation from Mexico in such a way as to avoid having to give assurances against the death penalty under the Mexico/USA extradition treaty. In another case in 1990, US agents forcibly abducted a Mexican national from Mexico and the US Supreme court ruled that the manner of his apprehension - a violation of international law - did not prohibit his trial in the USA. In 1998, the Virginia Supreme Court cited that precedent in upholding the death sentence of a Pakistan national abducted in Pakistan by FBI agents and flown back to the USA where he awaits execution today. Obviously, our joining the rest of the civilized world in the abolishment of the death penalty would remove this barrier to extradition. As to kidnapping of foreign nationals from foreign countries, one can only trust to our goodwill and willingness to abide by our international agreements. One can, can’t one? ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-you-are-a-fucking-moron/247670/26 "2004-05-29T21:37:14Z")
> [@](#): > > (he was shut out of it and stripped of his British citizenship after accusations of terrorist activity in January 2003) My understanding is that he has not had British citizenship removed, yet, but that there was a legal process going on to do so, and that various appeals would also have to be heard first and that this would take time. I was also of the understanding that the intention was to deport him which would also involve a lengthy appeals process. I believe you will find that the only thing to have been removed from Hamsa is his right to state benefits, but this is due to certain rules about income. The US would be extremely foolishly short sighted if it were to execute Hamsa as any subsequent extradition request from the US to any European Act nation would almost certainly result in a successful appeal against extradition. It would even be very foolish to pass a death sentence without enacting it too as this would likely make extremely good grounds for appeal against extradition. I also note the irony here that the US is requesting extradition of an accused terrorist when European nations, particularly the UK, have found extradition of terrorists from the US to be so difficult as to effectively make it a worthless excercise to attempt to get Irish murderers back to the UK to face the trials they so richly deserve. Maybe we should simply hang on to Hamsa and reply to this nasty little tinpot US leadership that “What goes around comes around”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-ashcroft-you-are-a-fucking-moron/247670.md?page=1)