# John Boehner, the most incompetant Speaker **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 1, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541 "2014-08-01T00:44:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/41 "2014-08-01T20:18:48Z")
Just a flesh wound. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/42 "2014-08-01T20:52:00Z")
I was working a tempt at a utility company, there was a guy there who was a crew leader, had a hat that said “I am their Leader! Where are they?”. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/43 "2014-08-01T23:56:29Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Speakers historically have had a lot of influence over their caucus. Take for example how often Pelosi passed legislation with exactly the number of Dem votes needed. That’s obviously not a coincidence, it’s because the Dem leadership pushed for more votes till they had enough and then stopped. > > . That’s called covering the asses of your vulnerable members. THey had the votes they needed, the issue was to see how many they could let vote against so they could go home and claim they didn’t support Democratic policies even though they were Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/44 "2014-08-02T00:30:41Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > …so what does the former want? In terms of policy? I don’t think tea party policies are any mystery. That’s the theocratic/populist/libertarian coalition of the GOP. The Presidential wing cares about attracting swing voters during Presidential elections as well as contributions by various CEOs. Think about the [US Chamber of Commerce](http://www.chamberlitigation.com/) (not to be confused with the local Chambers). Immigration, infrastructure and the common core are wedge issues, but the GOP’s componentry is united by tax cuts for the rich and rhetoric for the remainder. The key sticking point is that Tea Partiers think compromise is a bad thing. The Chamber, Wall St, and those who dislike rocking boats take issue with that. Things come to head when debt ceilings are breached: serious people believe the US government should pay its debts. Tea partying dead beats and economic hostage takers disagree. > [@bengangmo](#): > > Is there any point at which the public are just going to say screw it and throw out these sorts of people? Fox News conservatives won’t. And again, the state of the federal government is thought to be the responsibility of the President by even middling information voters. After all, an accurate depiction of the political reality sounds kinda shrill. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/45 "2014-08-02T00:38:24Z")
The state of the federal government is the responsibility of the President, unless you can point to a law that is vitally necessary that hasn’t been passed. Like for example if he needed to defend the country but oh, Congress forgot to give him an army. THe President currently has a million things he has to do. Blaming the state of the federal government on the fact that Congress didn’t give him additional tasks to perform is nonsense. If anything, the President should be grateful. A Democratic Congress would be giving him more jobs he would be neglecting right now. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/46 "2014-08-02T01:07:37Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The Salon article that BG linked in post #4 has an interesting sentence. > > > [@](#): > > > > The bill’s chances weren’t looking so bad this morning. After pressure from Cruz and conservatives, Boehner had agreed to offer a separate vote on ending DACA,with language barring President Obama from acting further through executive actions on deferring deportations > > How could it be possible for the legislative branch to curtain the executive branch’s power in this way? > > I don’t know how many of our lawyers join these contentious political threads, so I’ll report this as a question in GQ if you’d like. Specifically as it relates to immigration matters, Congress has plenary power, meaning their decisions are largely exempt from judicial review. They could pass laws that are narrowly tailored to limit discretion of the executive branch. As it related to immigration this could be by authorizing spending specifically related to border detention and repatriation while denying spending authority for transporting illegal immigrants inland or for providing legal representation to those who do not specifically qualify under US law. Another example is that Congress could pass a law specifying that no work permission shall be valid for anyone receiving deferred action on deportation and that any deferral be strictly time limited. Whether Congress has sufficient votes to pass any immigration matter, including passing a law over a potential presidential veto, is another matter entirely. Of course Congress could pass more narrowly tailored language with other issues, but often defers to the executive branch to promulgate regulations. For example, Congress could have included a list of mandatory coverage items when they passed the PPACA, listing one-by-one the types of contraceptives to be covered or not. Instead Congress authorized the Secretary of Health and Human Services to develop such regulations which greatly empowered the executive branch in the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/47 "2014-08-02T01:14:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > THe President currently has a million things he has to do. Blaming the state of the federal government on the fact that Congress didn’t give him additional tasks to perform is nonsense. If anything, the President should be grateful. A Democratic Congress would be giving him more jobs he would be neglecting right now. That’s why I still read your posts. You make me laugh out loud at least once a day. I know you don’t even believe it yourself, but damn boy, you are funny sometimes. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/48 "2014-08-02T02:28:58Z")
Update: the House did pass a bill now: > **[House GOP passes border bill -- likely to no effect | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2014/08/01/politics/congress-immigration/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)** > > House Republicans approve a border bill before going home for August, but it won’t go anywhere. Making Boehner much more competent this time around than Harry Reid. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/49 "2014-08-02T03:39:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Update: the House did pass a bill now: > > [http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/01/politics/congress-immigration/index.html?hpt=hp\_t2](http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/01/politics/congress-immigration/index.html?hpt=hp_t2) > > Making Boehner much more competent this time around than Harry Reid. > [@](#): > > – likely to no effect The guys at TPM have the score: [http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/house-gop-votes-rebuke-obama-deport-dreamers](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/house-gop-votes-rebuke-obama-deport-dreamers) > [@](#): > > House GOP Votes To Spurn Obama, Deport Dreamers Before Leaving Town > [@](#): > > “In the end, the Republican position on immigration can be summed up as: deport 'em all,” said Rep. Luis Gutiérrez (D-IL). “You know it is suicide as a political strategy, but you continue to say deport 'em all.” > > Both bills are dead on arrival in the Senate. Obama slammed them as “extreme and unworkable” and promised to veto them if they land on his desk. > > The first bill provides $694 million to deal with the influx of child migrants from Central America and change the law so U.S. officials can quickly send them home. The second bill ends the president’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program for the roughly 550,000 who have benefited and prohibits the U.S. from granting work permits to anyone in the country illegally. > [@](#): > > \*\*It was a remarkable move for the GOP after national party leaders warned after the 2012 election that it would have to broaden its appeal to Hispanics in order to prevent its constituency from shrinking. It is also a startling defeat for Speaker John Boehner’s (R-OH) efforts to persuade his members to embrace immigration reform after Obama’s reelection. Instead House Republicans have decided to play to their immigration-weary conservative base, which fiercely opposes any form leniency for people in the U.S. illegally. > > The vote was one of the first acts of the new post-Eric Cantor leadership team featuring new House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) and Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R-LA). It foreshadows an explosive battle between Obama and the GOP once the president unveils his next executive actions, expected by the end of summer, to temporarily shield potentially millions of low-priority undocumented immigrants from deportation. > > “Where are our hearts?” said Rep. John Lewis (D-GA), a civil rights hero, in a fiery floor speech. “Where are our souls?”\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/50 "2014-08-02T03:52:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The state of the federal government is the responsibility of the President, unless you can point to a law that is vitally necessary that hasn’t been passed. Like for example if he needed to defend the country but oh, Congress forgot to give him an army. > > THe President currently has a million things he has to do. Blaming the state of the federal government on the fact that Congress didn’t give him additional tasks to perform is nonsense. If anything, the President should be grateful. A Democratic Congress would be giving him more jobs he would be neglecting right now. You really have no idea how the federal government operates, do you? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/51 "2014-08-02T05:05:20Z")
Unaccountably, with no elected officials in charge? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/52 "2014-08-02T15:30:51Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > You really have no idea how the federal government operates, do you? Considering his typical level of understanding on most fields of knowledge, why should this one be different? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/53 "2014-08-02T16:34:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I was working a tempt at a utility company You tease, you! 😉 > [@Iggy](#): > > Specifically as it relates to immigration matters, Congress has plenary power, meaning their decisions are largely exempt from judicial review. They could pass laws that are narrowly tailored to limit discretion of the executive branch. That doesn’t seem right. [Center for Immigration Studies](http://www.cis.org/plenarypower) > [@](#): > > Federal policy on immigration has been founded on the “plenary power doctrine,” which holds that the political branches — the legislative and the executive — have sole power to regulate all aspects of immigration as a basic attribute of sovereignty. But despite the fact that the courts have affirmed the plenary power doctrine countless times since the 19th century, there is a movement underway to erode political-branch control over immigration in favor of a judge-administered system based on the implicit idea that foreigners have a “right” to immigrate. That says explicitly that both the legislature and executive branches have plenary power. I still don’t see how Congress can therefore deny it to the President. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/54 "2014-08-02T21:20:18Z")
Boehner’s bill -passed with overwhelming Republican support and Democratic vote shares under 5%- requires that the government deport US soldiers growing up in the US with foreign unregistered parents. Supporters believe that the sins of the father should be visited on their sons, even those sons who risked life and limb for the country they love. For the Republican caucus, it doesn’t matter whether you served bravely in Afghanistan or even Iraq. Whether you have earned a purple heart or other commendation is immaterial: what matters is your country of birth. I accept that. I accept those who thumb their noses at the Statue of Liberty or lack any sense of _gratitude_ or who seek to undermine this great country. They have a right to their opinion. For myself, I stand with America. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/55 "2014-08-02T22:02:55Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Boehner’s bill -passed with overwhelming Republican support and Democratic vote shares under 5%- requires that the government deport US soldiers growing up in the US with foreign unregistered parents. Supporters believe that the sins of the father should be visited on their sons, even those sons who risked life and limb for the country they love. For the Republican caucus, it doesn’t matter whether you served bravely in Afghanistan or even Iraq. Whether you have earned a purple heart or other commendation is immaterial: what matters is your country of birth. > > I accept that. I accept those who thumb their noses at the Statue of Liberty or lack any sense of _gratitude_ or who seek to undermine this great country. They have a right to their opinion. For myself, I stand with America. Details, please. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/56 "2014-08-02T22:11:44Z")
[From Gigo’s upthread link](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/house-gop-votes-rebuke-obama-deport-dreamers): > [@TPM Reporter Sahil Kapur](#): > > …House Republicans passed legislation on Friday night to effectively require the deportation of everyone in the U.S. illegally, including young people brought as children who attended college or joined the military. > > …Both bills are dead on arrival in the Senate. > > …The vote marks the third time in the 113th Congress that House Republicans have passed legislation that would, effectively, require the deportation of so-called Dreamers. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/57 "2014-08-04T13:43:01Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > That doesn’t seem right. > > [Center for Immigration Studies](http://www.cis.org/plenarypower) Unintentionally Ironic Post/Link Combo of the Week! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/58 "2014-08-04T13:58:18Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Specifically as it relates to immigration matters, Congress has plenary power, meaning their decisions are largely exempt from judicial review. They could pass laws that are narrowly tailored to limit discretion of the executive branch. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > That doesn’t seem right. > > [Center for Immigration Studies](http://www.cis.org/plenarypower) > > That says explicitly that both the legislature and executive branches have plenary power. I still don’t see how Congress can therefore deny it to the President. The plenary power thing isn’t really helpful here. Federal plenary power over immigration basically just means two things: (1) courts will defer to the actions of the political branches on immigration matters, and (2) any state legislation on immigration is automatically void as a result of the Supremacy Clause. It doesn’t tell us anything about the relationship between Congress and the POTUS with regard to immigration matters. Both have inherent powers. However, the Constitution specifically empowers Congress to “establish a uniform rule of naturalization”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/59 "2014-08-04T14:12:03Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > [From Gigo’s upthread link](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/house-gop-votes-rebuke-obama-deport-dreamers): So, it will “effectively require” that. Which, supposedly, is different from “require”. But note that Obama’s policies will also “effectively require” the same thing, only to smaller number of the same folks since his executive order only applies to subset of people who came here illegally as children. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541/60 "2014-08-04T15:36:22Z")
I rise to a pedantic quibble about grammar. The phrasing “came here illegally” implies some volition on their part, as if they willfully broke the law. And while it is strictly true that they “came” here, and their arrival _was_ illegal, they came because their parents brought them. They did not choose to act illegally. And I hasten to add I mean this in a spirit of correction and precision, not as a rebuttal and certainly not as a rebuke. I have no doubt that you did not intend to suggest some culpability on the part of the children. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-boehner-the-most-incompetant-speaker/694541.md?page=4)