# John Bolton calls for bombing Iran **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2007, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039 "2007-09-30T17:05:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/1 "2007-09-30T17:05:22Z")
Story [here.](http://politics.guardian.co.uk/tory2007/story/0,,2180555,00.html) > [@](#): > > John Bolton, the former US ambassador to the United Nations, told Tory delegates today that efforts by the UK and the EU to negotiate with Iran had failed and that he saw no alternative to a pre-emptive strike on suspected nuclear facilities in the country. > > \ > > He added that any strike should be followed by an attempt to remove the “source of the problem”, Mr Ahmadinejad. > > “If we were to strike Iran it should be accompanied by an effort at regime change … The US once had the capability to engineer the clandestine overthrow of governments. I wish we could get it back.” > > \ > > Mr Bolton, now a fellow at the conservative thinktank the American Enterprise Institute and the author of a forthcoming book called Surrender is Not an Option, was applauded by delegates when he described the UN as “fundamentally irrelevant”. > > Defending the decision to invade Iraq, he mocked the Foreign Office’s “softly softly” approach to Iran’s imprisonment of 15 British sailors accused of straying into Iranian waters in April this year. :rolleyes: This man was our **ambassador to the United Nations?!** ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/2 "2007-09-30T17:17:46Z")
> [@](#): > > “The US once had the capability to engineer the clandestine overthrow of governments. I wish we could get it back.” Yeah, we did it in Iran in 1953 and look how well that’s turned out. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/3 "2007-09-30T17:40:45Z")
I’d suggest bombing John Bolton, but the _Gestapo_ would probably think I was serious. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/4 "2007-09-30T19:11:29Z")
[QUOTE=BJMoose] I’d suggest bombing John Bolton, but the _Gestapo_ would probably think I was serious. [/QUOTE] Ironically enough it is the SS that is responsible for John’s security. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/5 "2007-09-30T19:56:42Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Ironically enough it is the SS that is responsible for John’s security. [/QUOTE] Actually it would have been Diplomatic Security Service back when he was ambassador to the UN. AFAIK, he is a private citizen now and not entitled to any gummint bodyguards. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/6 "2007-09-30T22:36:46Z")
> [@OP's article](#): > > He added that any strike should be followed by an attempt to remove the “source of the problem”, Mr Ahmadinejad Amongst other things, how do you get to be ambassador to the UN without knowing that Ahmadinejad isn’t the leader of the Iran or the driving force behind their nuclear program? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/7 "2007-09-30T22:54:25Z")
[QUOTE=Malodorous] Amongst other things, how do you get to be ambassador to the UN without knowing that Ahmadinejad isn’t the leader of the Iran or the driving force behind their nuclear program? [/QUOTE] By having a President like Bush, and his neocon associates, who don’t care about competence. Competence doen’t even seem to be an issue with these people. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/8 "2007-09-30T23:13:06Z")
They measure competence by certain tried and true metrics, rather simple really. They look about them and observe that truly intelligent, competent people are in complete agreement. Serious, hard-headed people. Hence, competence may be reliably measured by the extent and enthusiasm of any given candidate’s agreement. Mr. Bolton has demonstrated that he can examine conflicting evidence and unerringly reach the correct conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/9 "2007-09-30T23:15:16Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Story [here.](http://politics.guardian.co.uk/tory2007/story/0,,2180555,00.html) :rolleyes: This man was our **ambassador to the United Nations?!** [/QUOTE] Iran declared war on the U.K. by seizing 15 sailors. What did the UN do? I distinctly remember crickets chirping, on that. So what use is the UN? ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2007, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/10 "2007-09-30T23:19:36Z")
He is probably being well paid to spout such garbage. And just think, he is allowed to vote when felons are not. For that matter, clams are not allowed to vote and I’ve seen smarter clams than Bolton. At the very least, I’ve never heard a clam spout the kind of crap that Bolton spews. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2007, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/11 "2007-10-01T00:31:01Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Iran declared war on the U.K. by seizing 15 sailors. What did the UN do? I distinctly remember crickets chirping, on that. So what use is the UN? [/QUOTE] Nonsense. Iran did no such thing. As a classic underdog in conflicts, they resorted to the classic game of “we accidentally kidnapped your people. Wanna talk?” Even in the days of the original Great Game, Great Britain would have never gone to war over the capture and return of a handful of servicepeople in an incident that might even have been an accident. (How likely is it that Iranian patrol boats are quipped with really good GPS units.) The same sort of thing happened with the US Navy _Orion_ at the beginnng of Bush’s term. Only the insane consider such actions to be “acts of war.” ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2007, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/12 "2007-10-01T00:33:01Z")
[QUOTE=BJMoose] I’d suggest bombing John Bolton, but the _Gestapo_ would probably think I was serious. [/QUOTE] Unfortunately, in time of war, it is unavoidable that the occasional innocent John Bolton will be killed during strikes against John Bolton. Whenever possible, our forces attempt to verify that any John Bolton killed in the vicinity of John Bolton is a member or supporter of a rogue John Bolton. However, the fact is that many John Boltons are guilty of offering aid and comfort to John Bolton. Also, it’s widely known that John Bolton deliberately conceals himself among large groups of John Bolton. Therefore, the ultimate blame for any innocent John Bolton casualties falls squarely on the shoulders of John Bolton. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2007, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/13 "2007-10-01T00:44:21Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Iran declared war on the U.K. by seizing 15 sailors. What did the UN do? [/quote] The situation [was resolved with UN involvement](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=5OJ4IK3ZU4W35QFIQMGCFF4AVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2007/04/05/wiran305.xml) albeit comparatively minor. I don’t know about the crickets in your head. See a doctor. As for “declaring war”, I guess that’s just some other shit you made up. The 15 sailors situation was resolved diplomatically and without significant long term drama. Luckily, the English are good at that sort of thing. The current US government is totally crap at it. It probably comes from having dickweeds in control whose “macho posturing” level is at a similar level of dysfunction to your own. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2007, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/14 "2007-10-01T00:53:44Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Story [here.](http://politics.guardian.co.uk/tory2007/story/0,,2180555,00.html) :rolleyes: This man was our **ambassador to the United Nations?!** [/QUOTE] Yes, and he was a good one. He’s right on target (no pun intended). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2007, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/15 "2007-10-01T01:43:15Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Yes, and he was a good one. What exactly did he accomplish? Nothing [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bolton#Term_at_the_UN) leaps off the screen. > [@Clothahump](#): > > He’s right on target (no pun intended. I **hope** the unintended pun does not refer to Iran! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2007, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/16 "2007-10-01T02:20:40Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Only the insane consider such actions to be “acts of war.” [/QUOTE] How long do we have to wait till that line gets crossed in your mind? Especially considering how many deaths of our servicemembers in Iraq can be traced to weaponry that came from Iran. The probability that the Iranian government is involved in this it pretty troubling - and I notice that it is being talked about be Democrats and Republicans alike, so it doesn’t seem as if concern about this is overly partisan. Indeed, it fits in with a string of behavior from a hostile state aligned roughly against the West since 1979. So while I’m certainly not suggesting we go to war with Iran, I do think we need to recognize a hostile act as a hostile act - particularly if said act sends one of our guys home in a box. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2007, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/17 "2007-10-01T02:42:13Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] How long do we have to wait till that line gets crossed in your mind? Especially considering how many deaths of our servicemembers in Iraq can be traced to weaponry that came from Iran. [/QUOTE] I’m sure many deaths of Soviet soldiers in Afghanistan could be traced to weapons that came from, or were paid for by, the U.S. Yet that was never considered an act of war by the U.S. against the Soviet Union. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2007, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/18 "2007-10-01T02:42:38Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] So while I’m certainly not suggesting we go to war with Iran, I do think we need to recognize a hostile act as a hostile act - particularly if said act sends one of our guys home in a box. [/QUOTE] Certainly. A small problem here, though. We’re talking about Iraq, right? Well, everyone is getting in on the action. Most of the foreign fighters (which, all told, are rather paltry) actually come from Saudi Arabia. I don’t think we’re going to condemn them anytime soon. Syria has a lot too, even some foreign fighters from North African countries can be found here and there. > [@](#): > > Especially considering how many deaths of our servicemembers in Iraq can be traced to weaponry that came from Iran. Er, how many would that be, do you think? The Iranians obviously have the easiest hand to play, but I haven’t seen any evidence that Iran is helping out all that much materially, outside of the usual black market stuff. I’d think it’d almost be as likely that U.S. weapons have killed more than Iranian weapons. It is literally U.S. policy to arm groups which either have been killing us or end up killing us later. At first we were helping the Shia, but then someone told the administration that Iran would like that, so we switched to the Sunnis, who have been massacring us for years and haven’t been coy about it. That doesn’t strike me as very smart, although I tend not to see much profit from those transactions. On the other hand, it’s really, really hard to find groups in Iraq which don’t want to kill Americans. Maybe we should stop handing out guns like candy. As for Bolton, nothing new. He’s been wanting to bomb Iran for quite some time. Who doesn’t? Maybe Kucinich or Paul or some other crazy person. It’s the new black, it’s in style. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2007, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/19 "2007-10-01T02:50:31Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] How long do we have to wait till that line gets crossed in your mind? Especially considering how many deaths of our servicemembers in Iraq can be traced to weaponry that came from Iran. [/QUOTE] Well looky here it’s the new “ramping up to justify an Iran invasion” talking points. Should we expect to see a lot of talk of “deaths of US servicemembers by Iranian weapons” in coming months? “The evidence of Saddam’s WMD that could _kill your children and your mother in 20 minutes_ is building. How long do we have to wait before the line is crossed and you accept we should invade?” ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2007, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039/20 "2007-10-01T03:22:25Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Nonsense. Iran did no such thing. As a classic underdog in conflicts, they resorted to the classic game of “we accidentally kidnapped your people. Wanna talk?” Even in the days of the original Great Game, Great Britain would have never gone to war over the capture and return of a handful of servicepeople in an incident that might even have been an accident. (How likely is it that Iranian patrol boats are quipped with really good GPS units.) The same sort of thing happened with the US Navy _Orion_ at the beginnng of Bush’s term. Only the insane consider such actions to be “acts of war.” [/QUOTE] Nonsense yourself. Seizing another country’s men at arms is an aggresion, in voilation of every concept of civil conduct between Nations. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-calls-for-bombing-iran/421039.md?page=2)