# John Bolton Out as National Security Advisor **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 10, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992 "2019-09-10T16:18:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/21 "2019-09-10T18:02:50Z")
Bush did it, while Trump so far has not. That’s a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/22 "2019-09-10T18:15:29Z")
I don’t believe that Trump is going to start a war, no. I think I have a pretty good “read” on public figures and their motivations. My take on Trump is that he knows he only has to maintain the status quo in order to be re-elected (this is something that people might disagree with, but it’s what I believe.) As long as the economy, gas prices, and access to the necessities and distractions of life, remain the same on Election Day, I think all Trump will really have to do is campaign the same way he did in 2016, and he can win. He knows that he has a formula that works, and to throw a war into it would be messing with the formula, and I don’t think he’ll do it. People have been constantly insisting for the past 3 years that Trump would be throwing us into open military conflict with various parties, but it hasn’t materialized and I don’t believe it will. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/23 "2019-09-10T18:17:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > He was always being sold in the MSM as the guy who wanted war with Iran, so I am guessing “too hawkish”. But who knows? It’s not like the press is going to label anything Trump does as a good idea. It’s not really journalists’ place to say whether a given firing is right or not. But I am sure that the opinion shows will say this is a good thing (though also be nervous about what’s coming next). Majority report, TYT, Pakman etc do give Trump credit for things. It’s just rare because he rarely does sensible things. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/24 "2019-09-10T18:17:45Z")
That is a reasonable position. And therein lies the problem. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/25 "2019-09-10T18:26:28Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > I don’t believe that Trump is going to start a war, no. > > I think I have a pretty good “read” on public figures and their motivations. My take on Trump is that he knows he only has to maintain the status quo in order to be re-elected (this is something that people might disagree with, but it’s what I believe.) As long as the economy, gas prices, and access to the necessities and distractions of life, remain the same on Election Day, I think all Trump will really have to do is campaign the same way he did in 2016, and he can win. > > He knows that he has a formula that works, and to throw a war into it would be messing with the formula, and I don’t think he’ll do it. People have been constantly insisting for the past 3 years that Trump would be throwing us into open military conflict with various parties, but it hasn’t materialized and I don’t believe it will. Trump can “fake news” his way out of things like a trade war with China, the effects of his immigration policy, etc. He wouldn’t be able to claim “fake news” if Americans start coming home in body bags from a war that he started, and even he’s smart enough to realize that, so I think you’re correct that this is what Trump is thinking. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/26 "2019-09-10T18:32:40Z")
He probably fired him cause he wouldn’t shave that atrocious mustache. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/27 "2019-09-10T18:40:38Z")
Well, I disagree, but this is one time where I hope I am never proven right. I would agree that he has no ideology pushing him towards war. But he also doesn’t give a shit about other humans. Imagine some provoking incident happened and a reasonable proportion of his base were pushing for war. Heck, imagine that they _cheer at his rallies_ when he muses sending troops over. You think he’d hesitate? The fact it hasn’t happened yet is just luck ☹ ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/28 "2019-09-10T18:41:01Z")
I think the obvious reason Bolton is gone is that canceling the Taliban talks on an impetuous whim was Trump’s decision, and that decision makes him look like an idiot, so he had to lash out at someone rather than blame himself (all but impossible). ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/29 "2019-09-10T18:41:47Z")
The CNN coverage I’m seeing right now makes it sound like Trump made a bad decision by firing Bolton. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/30 "2019-09-10T18:41:52Z")
Cue Nelson Muntz laugh: Ha Ha! What a dumbass, what a maroon you were, John Bolton, for thinking you could trust or have any real influence on Trump. Glad to see him on his ass. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/31 "2019-09-10T18:48:24Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Well, I disagree, but this is one time where I hope I am never proven right. > > I would agree that he has no ideology pushing him towards war. But he also doesn’t give a shit about other humans. > Imagine some provoking incident happened and a reasonable proportion of his base were pushing for war. Heck, imagine that they _cheer at his rallies_ when he muses sending troops over. You think he’d hesitate? > > The fact it hasn’t happened yet is just luck ☹ As the old saying goes, sometimes it’s better to be lucky than good. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/32 "2019-09-10T18:49:03Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > It’s not really journalists’ place to say whether a given firing is right or not. > > But I am sure that the opinion shows will say this is a good thing (though also be nervous about what’s coming next). > Majority report, TYT, Pakman etc do give Trump credit for things. It’s just rare because he rarely does sensible things. No no no. Get with the program! The press is “the enemy of the people”, all they want is to Destroy America And It’s Hopes For Greatness. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/33 "2019-09-10T19:00:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Trump Tweet, 10:49 AM - 9 Sep 2019 > > The Dishonest Media likes to create the look of turmoil in the White House, of which there is none. > [@](#): > > Trump Tweet, 8:58 AM - 10 Sep 2019 > I informed John Bolton last night that his services are no longer needed at the White House. I disagreed strongly with many of his suggestions, as did others in the Administration… You see? No turmoil! Nothing to see! Dishonest media! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/34 "2019-09-10T19:05:41Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Trump can “fake news” his way out of things like a trade war with China, the effects of his immigration policy, etc. He wouldn’t be able to claim “fake news” if Americans start coming home in body bags from a war that he started, and even he’s smart enough to realize that, so I think you’re correct that this is what Trump is thinking. Trump does not give his supporters enough credit then. If hundreds of dead soldiers, marines and airforce were coming home in body bags, the Trumpistas would claim that they were actually crisis actors, and the fake news was making it all up. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/35 "2019-09-10T19:12:17Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Trump does not give his supporters enough credit then. If hundreds of dead soldiers, marines and airforce were coming home in body bags, the Trumpistas would claim that they were actually crisis actors, and the fake news was making it all up. Easy enough to do when the dead are people you don’t know. When it’s you own brother, sister, husband, or wife, it’s a lot harder to pretend. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/36 "2019-09-10T19:18:18Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Trump can “fake news” his way out of things like a trade war with China, the effects of his immigration policy, etc. He wouldn’t be able to claim “fake news” if Americans start coming home in body bags from a war that he started, and even he’s smart enough to realize that, so I think you’re correct that this is what Trump is thinking. Nah, Trump really really REALLY wants a Nobel Peace Prize. After all, that awful nasty man Obama has one, so Trump has to one-up him. He thought he could get one with North Korea, but yeah, not so much. So, let’s try with the Taliban? But bottom line, on the one hand I think he would gladly nuke Iran, but on the other hand he wants the Nobel, and IMHO that is a bigger motivator for him. So, no wars! Yay! (And we all KNOW Hillary would have started wars all over the place, right?) Regarding Bolton, once Trump figured out that he was going to stand in his way getting the Nobel, well, that’s an easy decision. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/37 "2019-09-10T19:23:37Z")
Surely Jarred must have achieved peace in the ME by now. I’m sure he’s got time to spare for the NSA position. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/38 "2019-09-10T19:47:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Bush did it, while Trump so far has not. That’s a difference. Trump would never start a nuclear war until after he’s been re-elected. He wouldn’t want the world to end with him as a one-term President. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/39 "2019-09-10T20:45:44Z")
I just really don’t think Donald Trump wants to be involved in war, full stop. He surely likes the fact that he can order the military around (or so he thinks) but no, I do not believe he is a warmonger at all. Trump is a hedonist. He has always been a hedonist at his core. He is interested primarily in enriching himself, promoting himself, and being the center of attention. He may not be an intelligent or thoughtful man, but he knows damn well that starting a real, honest to God shooting war would be a gigantic headache. For himself. And so that’s why he won’t do it. Not because he cares about world peace or any higher purpose, just because he knows that it would disrupt his own life’s work, which is: being Donald Trump. A war during his first term would jeopardize his re-election. A war during his second term would jeopardize his “yuge” legacy. He knows goddamn good and well that George W. Bush’s legacy was utterly ruined by his war - indeed, he campaigned on it himself. And while he may SAY that _he_ could fight a war better than his predecessors, there is no way in hell that he’s going to try, because he knows the consequences of failure would be too damaging to his own ego. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992/40 "2019-09-10T21:31:31Z")
True. I think it’s more a logical part of his overall lack of interest in ANYTHING beyond the US borders. 99 times out of 100, this means bad things (immigration, trade, ripping up pacts right and left…), but it also means one good thing: truly not wanting to get entangled in foreign places militarily, either. So, Bolton gone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-bolton-out-as-national-security-advisor/839992.md?page=3)