# John Calvin, Predestination, and Free Will

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-calvin-predestination-and-free-will/179190>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [June 2, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-calvin-predestination-and-free-will/179190 "2003-06-02T19:08:30Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 3\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Major\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Major\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Major_Kong)\
**Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-calvin-predestination-and-free-will/179190/1 "2003-06-02T19:08:30Z")

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Can you explain John Calvin’s views on predestination and free will. Does man have free will? How are the Elect selected? Can people do anything to help become Elect? What role does faith plan? Why was it necessary for Jesus to be born? Can a non-Christian be of the Elect? Will being of the Elect cause you to do good acts or do the Elect still have free will? Could a caveman be of the Elect? Could Hitler be of the Elect?

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**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\
**Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-calvin-predestination-and-free-will/179190/2 "2003-06-02T20:03:43Z")

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1. Not entirely…our sinful nature inclines us toward evil…but I have the freedom to decide if I want soup or salad with my meal

2. By the merciful forgiveness of a loving God

3. No

4. Faith is a divine gift

5. Jesus had to be born, die and rise again in order to open the gates of heaven and redeem a sinful mankind

6. Not unless he were later in his life to become Christian

7. The gift of grace helps to temper our evil nature

8. I’d need more info.

9. Hypothetically, but probably not.

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**Author:** ![bubba\_jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@bubba\_jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bubba_jr)\
**Post date:** [June 4, 2003, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-calvin-predestination-and-free-will/179190/3 "2003-06-04T03:04:31Z")

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As a Presbyterian / was a, when I was about 13 years old I had to drag this little tidbit of predestination out of my minister, he  
understood that it was a part of the religion, but didn’t want  
to let out that dirty little secret. Especially since my questions  
were basically, so I can do whatever I want, whenever I want  
and I can’t change were I’m going? So going to church and tithing make no difference, then what am I even doing here.  
He got pissed off at me (arrogant bastard) and gave me a  
lecture about masturbation. I finally gave up altogether when  
I asked him why all his sermons were about money, and he  
gave me a lecture on masturbation.  
Just seems like a bad motivational idea.