# John Carter again **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 21, 2012, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507 "2012-02-21T06:50:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/41 "2012-02-22T21:55:58Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > And because writers and directors and producers want to go into the movie riding on a preexisting universe and characters, to spare themselves the trouble of coming up with them from scratch. Now, there’s nothing wrong with an adaptation or derivative work, and novel-length source material almost necessarily has to be abridged to fit into feature-film length, that’s a given. But when the writers/producers/directors want to tell… maybe not tell another story, but they want to\* tell this story as they believe they would have had they been writing it today\*, because they feel today’s market would want to see something different (and hardcore fans are a limited segment, let’s face it), that’s when you end up with something more like expensive fanfiction. Seems to me the stories as written would seem more than a bit hokey to today’s audiences. And you are right, hardcore ERB fans are a pretty small segment of the population. We are not talking about Harry Potter. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/42 "2012-02-22T22:47:28Z")
Excuse me? Nekkid Dejah Thoris. Built in market segment right there, if they had the guts to go for it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/43 "2012-02-22T22:53:46Z")
There is a short piece in the latest Newsweek that makes it sound like this is going to be a box office disaster. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/44 "2012-02-22T23:01:52Z")
[Link](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/21/john-carter-disney-s-quarter-billion-dollar-movie-fiasco.html) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/45 "2012-02-23T00:07:29Z")
> [@Link](#): > > Moreover, Ross proved himself a capable company capo by engineering the kind of lucrative product and merchandising tie-ins that account for huge revenue streams at a time when Disney’s ticket and domestic DVD sales are stagnating. What the hell is a “capo”? It was a term used for the Jews in concentration camps who earned a few more weeks of life by hauling bodies around and pulling gold teeth. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/46 "2012-02-23T00:12:06Z")
Not much about the movie, mostly about management. I’m not giving up hope. Yet. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/47 "2012-02-23T00:20:34Z")
I see a lot of posts regarding changes from the novels, try to remember – this film is a Disney/Pixar production. So no naked red-skinned Dejah Thoris. I’m not a Disney hater, they do good work, but its always an adaptation. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/48 "2012-02-23T00:21:32Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I guess I don’t see the point of making a movie based on the old Barsoom novels unless you wanted to make a movie based on the old Barsoom novels. I think that the studios are looking to repeat the franchise success of the Harry Potter films. They’ve tried to do this with the Lemony Snicket, Narnia books, etc. Most of these attempts have not been successful. Now they’re trying with the Edgar Rice Burroughs Mars novels. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/49 "2012-02-23T00:36:01Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > this film is a Disney/Pixar production. Not Pixar, just Disney. Though the Director originated from Pixar (and will always remain associated with it), this film has nothing to do with their Studio. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/50 "2012-02-23T00:57:24Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > I see a lot of posts regarding changes from the novels, try to remember – this film is a Disney/Pixar production. So no naked red-skinned Dejah Thoris. I’m not a Disney hater, they do good work, but its always an adaptation. She doesn’t have to be naked, just wear something more suggestive of nudity so she doesn’t look so overdressed standing next to John Carter. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/51 "2012-02-23T01:18:59Z")
Well I used to want the movie to succeed like gangbusters so there would be other imitators that might be a little more liberal about Dejah Thoris’ costume. But ever since I found out that [the Edgar Rice Burroughs estate is suing Dynamite Entertainment](http://www.comicsbeat.com/2012/02/17/erb-inc-sues-dynamite-and-company-over-tarzan-and-john-carter/) for doing a realistic Princess of Mars, I’ve lost all enthusiasm for the project. Let 'em bomb. Hell the book was written about a century ago, but I guess copyright is infinite now. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/52 "2012-02-23T01:22:26Z")
I have heard the term “capo” used to refer to a captain in a Mafia family … basically, a guy who is in charge of a particular racket or territory and does the family’s bidding. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/53 "2012-02-23T05:00:47Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Well I used to want the movie to succeed like gangbusters so there would be other imitators that might be a little more liberal about Dejah Thoris’ costume. But ever since I found out that [the Edgar Rice Burroughs estate is suing Dynamite Entertainment](http://www.comicsbeat.com/2012/02/17/erb-inc-sues-dynamite-and-company-over-tarzan-and-john-carter/) for doing a realistic Princess of Mars, I’ve lost all enthusiasm for the project. Let 'em bomb. Hell the book was written about a century ago, but I guess copyright is infinite now. > [@](#): > > In addition, they claim the Dynamite titles contain inappropriate material: that something called the “Risqué Nude” cover variants feature nude Dejah Thoris—and other covers are “near pornographic.” Clearly these ERB, Inc. people have eyes in their head. Clearly Burroughs’ will needed a “Don’t give my work to prudes” clause. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/54 "2012-02-23T07:07:30Z")
Looks like the only thing this movie might have going for it is Andrew Stanton directing (Wall-E, Finding Nemo). Perhaps it’ll be a huge loss for Disney at the box office, but I’m hoping Stanton was able to corral his crew, and wield his story telling intuition on this film (Finding Nemo was perfection, and so was the first half of Wall-E, but that second half wasn’t nearly as good.) Although, everything I’ve see so far hasn’t been _bad,_ per se. It just doesn’t seem to have a particular intrinsic draw I thought something like this should have. The marketing has been week and flat, and losing “Of Mars” from the title takes away a certain weight, a big mistake IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/55 "2012-02-23T07:36:09Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > The marketing has been week and flat, and losing “Of Mars” from the title takes away a certain weight, a big mistake IMHO. I agree. As the article linked on the previous page by **River Hippie** says: > [@](#): > > “You take out ‘of Mars,’ you don’t tell where he came from? That’s what makes it unique!” a former Disney executive said. “They choose to ignore that, and the whole campaign ends up meaning nothing. It’s boiled down to something no one wants to see.” > > After seeing several John Carter trailers, a rival studio executive agreed. “You don’t know what it is,” the source said. “The geek generation isn’t responding. It’s too weird for the family audience. Then it has the Disney brand and PG-13? I’m not sure who it’s for.” For myself, i can live with the lack of nudity, but it seems to me that they’ve messed around too much with other aspects of the books, including things like the scale of some of the creatures. It’s been a while since i read the books, but the white apes in the trailer look WAY to big. In the books i’m pretty sure that they were about 12-15 feet tall; big, but not some Godzilla-like megafauna, which is how they look in the previews. For me, one of the most interesting parts of the first book was the ethnographic aspect of it, the time that Carter spends living and traveling with the green hordes and learning about their way of life. I realize that this probably wouldn’t make for a very compelling movie, but the movie they’ve made doesn’t really look to me like it’s maintained much of the spirit or feel of the source material. I recognize that Burroughs is not exactly highbrow literature, but i loved the Martian series for what it was, and i think i’m going to be disappointed with this movie. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/56 "2012-02-23T09:00:27Z")
This may be a biased sample, but preview screenings are getting good buzz. Might actually be pretty decent. Having said that, no negative reviews at all is a tad suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/57 "2012-02-23T10:48:31Z")
Sometimes buzz can really make up for shit marketing. If the movie ends up being a real treat, word of mouth could save it, but they’ll have to haul in _Avatar_ levels of ticket sales. $250,000,000 is an utterly gigantic budget. But, I am still looking forward to it. It may not be the pulpy 70s Barsoom we’re all used to seeing, but it might be a really strong scifi action/adventure. I’m also curious to see how Andrew Stanton fares with his first live action debut (hot on the heels of Brad Bird’s success with Mission Impossible). Shit, look how many times Tarzan’s been adapted and reimagined. I don’t have a problem with reinventing it somewhat. The scope looks truly epic, and I actually love the ship designs. They feel almost crustacean-esque. Fingers crossed. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/58 "2012-02-23T13:09:24Z")
Has anyone noticed that the star’s name – the guy playing john Carter – is Taylor _Kitsch_!!! > **[John Carter (film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carter_(film))** > > John Carter is a 2012 American science fiction action-adventure film directed by Andrew Stanton, written by Stanton, Mark Andrews, and Michael Chabon, and based on A Princess of Mars, the first book in the Barsoom series of novels by Edgar Rice Burroughs. Produced by Jim Morris, Colin Wilson and Lindsey Collins, it stars Taylor Kitsch in the title role, with Lynn Collins, Samantha Morton, Mark Strong, Ciarán Hinds, Dominic West, James Purefoy and Willem Dafoe co-starring in supporting roles. I... Apparently it’s his real name. I’ve managed to miss his other films, so he’s been under my radar. In case you don’t know, _Kitsch_: > [@](#): > > Kitsch (English pronunciation: /ˈkɪtʃ/, loanword from German) is a form of art that is considered an inferior, tasteless copy of an extant style of art or a worthless imitation of art of recognized value. > … > Kitsch also refers to the types of art that are aesthetically deficient (whether or not being sentimental, glamorous, theatrical, or creative) and that make creative gestures which merely imitate the superficial appearances of art through repeated conventions and formulae. > **[Kitsch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitsch)** > > Kitsch (/kɪtʃ/ KICH; loanword from German)\[a\] is a term applied to art and design that is perceived as naïve imitation, overly eccentric, gratuitous or of banal taste. > The modern avant-garde traditionally opposed kitsch for its melodramatic tendencies, its superficial relationship with the human condition and its naturalistic standards of beauty. In the first half of the 20th century, kitsch was used in reference to mass-produced, pop-cultural products that lacked the conceptual depth of fin... ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/59 "2012-02-23T13:28:38Z")
Remember: if it’s bad, it could always be worse. One commenter after [this Daily Beast](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/21/john-carter-disney-s-quarter-billion-dollar-movie-fiasco.html)article claims Tom Hanks, of all people, was willing to get all buff to play John Carter. Could be BS, but it reminds me of Clark Cage. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507/60 "2012-02-23T13:28:48Z")
I’ve seen the cinema trailer a couple of times, once in 3-D and once in 2-D. I’m happy watching 3-D but for this film the 2-D definitely looks better to me; the 3-D stuff seemed confusing and rushed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-carter-again/613507.md?page=4)