# John Cleese Cancels Himself **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comedian-jokes\ **Created:** [November 11, 2021, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188 "2021-11-11T14:19:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/101 "2021-11-13T17:12:08Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not necessarily racism, extreme gullibility will do. Oh _thank you_ for your generous latitude. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/102 "2021-11-13T17:13:03Z")
And I’m not even a Boomer, I’m just a Gen X’er. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/103 "2021-11-13T17:17:27Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But, who is granting any benefit of the doubt to this college kid who has become embroiled in this whole thing? I am. I think he just leaned a valuable lesson that he will remember his entire life. He’ll be alright. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/104 "2021-11-13T17:20:18Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You can say in your own words what your defense of the powerful means or why you are doing it. But make no mistake, that is what you are doing. I’m not defending the “powerful”. I’m defending those who happen to be right in this case. (No double entendre to “right” implied.) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/105 "2021-11-13T17:23:16Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > When someone uses the word “woke” that’s _bad_ and they are guilty of some sort of implied racism, regardless of context and intent. Who said that? It seems that you are doing quite a bit of putting words in other people’s mouths here. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > But when this guy used the word “blacklist”, he’s just a 22 year old who doesn’t understand history. That does seem to be what you are saying, yes. Not giving the benefit of the doubt, rushing to judgment, all that jazz. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/106 "2021-11-13T17:27:54Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I think he just leaned a valuable lesson that he will remember his entire life. He’ll be alright. Right, and that lesson, don’t stand up to the powerful, they will crush you. He may be alright, and he may be blacklisted by a powerful person like Cleese making such a big fuss over him. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m not defending the “powerful”. I’m defending those who happen to be right in this case. I get that you are defending who you think to be right. I just disagree with you that using one’s power and influence to bully a student for standing up for what _he_ thought was right is right. And the fact that it is the powerful that you feel are right in this case is a pattern with all those who complain when the weak speak out against the powerful, calling that “cancel culture”, and condemning it in far harsher terms than I ever see them condemn actually bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/107 "2021-11-13T17:28:04Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Who said that? It seems that you are doing quite a bit of putting words in other people’s mouths here. Am I? Maybe check with **GIGObuster**. Though in fairness, he’s just upgraded me from racists-adjacent to “ignorant”. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/108 "2021-11-13T17:32:33Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Maybe check with **GIGObuster**. Nah, I read what GIGO had to say, and it was nothing like what you claimed it to be. You reduced an explanation of the evolution of language and how it is misused into some sort of absolutist statement that was not even close to what GIGO had said. IOW, putting words in their mouth. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/109 "2021-11-13T17:33:26Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Right, and that lesson, don’t stand up to the powerful, they will crush you. OR, think before you speak. Especially when you’re about to make an accusation. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > He may be alright, and he may be blacklisted by a powerful person like Cleese making such a big fuss over him. I’m quite sure he won’t. What’s more, I bet John Cleese would happily share a pint with this kid and turn this into a learning opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/110 "2021-11-13T17:33:54Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > OR, think before you speak. Lol the irony. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/111 "2021-11-13T17:37:23Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Nah, I read what GIGO had to say, and it was nothing like what you claimed it to be. You reduced an explanation of the evolution of language and how it is misused into some sort of absolutist statement that was not even close to what GIGO had said. > > IOW, putting words in their mouth. “Woke” has evolved beyond the racist implications that GIGO provided. But in his erudition, he chose not to woke-splain that. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/112 "2021-11-13T17:37:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Complaining about wokism and cancel culture is like three syllables off from “kids these days.” As in “kids these days are the first generation to be less cool than their parents”? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/113 "2021-11-13T17:38:34Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > OR, think before you speak. Especially when you’re about to make an accusation. But don’t think before you speak when you are about to do hitler impressions. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m quite sure he won’t. Are you really? Why is that? The whole point of the anti-cancel culture movement is the belief that a powerful person’s career can be ended simply because some people said something bad about them online. How is it that you are sure that this effect doesn’t work the other way, where a powerful person calling out someone with no power will not have a deleterious effect on his future career prospects? > [@QuickSilver](#): > > What’s more, I bet John Cleese would happily share a pint with this kid and turn this into a learning opportunity. That would be an interesting pub summit, but I have no reason to think that is actually the case. What makes you think so? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/114 "2021-11-13T17:41:32Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > How is it that you are sure that this effect doesn’t work the other way, where a powerful person calling out someone with no power will not have a deleterious effect on his future career prospects? I’ve already forgotten this kid’s name. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > That would be an interesting pub summit, but I have no reason to think that is actually the case. What makes you think so? A hunch. It’s what I would do if I were he. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/115 "2021-11-13T17:43:50Z")
I’m not going to put words into GIGO’s mouth here, but my understanding is that he explained how “woke” went from a positive term about being aware of your effect on others, especially marginalized demographics, and has turned largely into a slur used by those who are against the very concept of being aware of your effect on others, especially marginalized demographics. What he did not say was," When someone uses the word “woke” that’s _bad_ and they are guilty of some sort of implied racism, regardless of context and intent." , or anything along those lines. Those are things that you made up. GIGO said nothing even remotely along those lines. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/116 "2021-11-13T17:43:55Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But don’t think before you speak when you are about to do hitler impressions. Well I mentioned [him](https://publicdelivery.org/maurizio-cattelan-him/) once, but I think I got away with it. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/117 "2021-11-13T17:46:31Z")
I don’t want to put words in his mouth either. So I’ll just quote him directly: > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not necessarily racism, extreme gullibility will do. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/118 "2021-11-13T18:03:35Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’ve already forgotten this kid’s name. Yeah, that’s what happens to the less powerful, they are forgotten. Fortunately, the internet remembers. Say you are that kid, and you go apply for a job, and they google your name. You don’t think that there will be employers who don’t want to bring on that sort of trouble? That they will be concerned that by hiring him, they may find themselves running afoul of powerful celebrities, who may send out a tweet and damage their business? > [@QuickSilver](#): > > A hunch. It’s what I would do if I were he. You are not he. I suppose I would do something similar in order to make amends in this situation, but I also wouldn’t have called out this kid in the first place. Would you have? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/119 "2021-11-13T18:09:36Z")
I’m not sure what your point is there. Someone made an art piece depicting hitler in a way that hitler would probably never actually be. The idea of hitler seeking forgiveness for his sins, as absurd as the idea is, is an entirely different activity than repeating the hateful things that hitler has said. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > I don’t want to put words in his mouth either. You had already done a good job of putting words into his mouth before he replied with that pithy quip. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188/120 "2021-11-13T18:13:41Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Fortunately, the internet remembers. Say you are that kid, and you go apply for a job, and they google your name. You don’t think that there will be employers who don’t want to bring on that sort of trouble? That they will be concerned that by hiring him, they may find themselves running afoul of powerful celebrities, who may send out a tweet and damage their business? That is the unfortunate and important lesson that this generation has to learn about their proclivities on social media. They seem at once the most media savvy and most naive about this medium they so fully embraced and have been exploiting for their own means. I don’t envy them one bit. I’m actually quite sad for them. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > You are not he. I suppose I would do something similar in order to make amends in this situation, but I also wouldn’t have called out this kid in the first place. Would you have? I don’t know the totality of what Cleese said because I doubt he was fulsomely quoted in his response. I certainly don’t claim to know what is in his mind. But if I were he, I would have been careful to point out that this is a teaching/learning opportunity and that it was not my intention to single him out. I would certainly take some pains in making sure I didn’t make a public pariah out of this young man. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-cleese-cancels-himself/954188.md?page=7)