# John Edwards' alleged lovechild: would you disqualify him as a VP choice due to this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 23, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500 "2008-07-23T16:42:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/81 "2008-08-08T06:19:31Z")
Oh…and who gives a shit about John Edwards’ sex life anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/82 "2008-08-08T06:40:08Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Oh…and who gives a shit about John Edwards’ sex life anyway? [/QUOTE] [Don Fowler](http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/46637.html), former Democratic National Committee chair. If Edwards fails to clear up the story in short order, he risks party officials deciding not to have him speak or, if they do, creating a distraction from a week focused on Barack Obama accepting the nomination. “If there is not an explanation that’s satisfactory, acceptable and meets high moral standards, the answer is ‘no,’ he would not be a prime candidate to make a major address to the convention,” said Don Fowler, a former Democratic National Committee chair. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/83 "2008-08-08T06:50:28Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] [http://www.expertlaw.com/library/personal\_injury/defamation.html](http://www.expertlaw.com/library/personal_injury/defamation.html) Proving malice is the really hard part. You might think that proving “reckless disregard for the truth” is easy, but it’s not at all. Do you believe that eveything the Enquirer has said about GWB is true? If not then why hasn’t he sued? [/QUOTE] Proving reckless disregard for the truth was not hard for Carol Burnett. Given how subjective “drunkenness” would be to prove I don’t see the problem with something as concrete as an illegitimate child. As for Dubbwa, you’ll have to ask him yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/84 "2008-08-08T12:09:37Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] A smart trial lawyer should be able to squeeze some money out of a slanderous newspaper. [/QUOTE] He’s right: it’s very hard to prove reckless disregard or actual malice. And the Enquirer couldn’t get away with its style of reporting, or creating, or whatever you want to call it, if it didn’t have the best lawyers. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/85 "2008-08-08T17:10:02Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] He’s right: it’s very hard to prove reckless disregard or actual malice. And the Enquirer couldn’t get away with its style of reporting, or creating, or whatever you want to call it, if it didn’t have the best lawyers. [/QUOTE] According to Wiki Edwards was known as the top plaintiffs’ attorney in North Carolina. He is the best of the best. Given that he doesn’t have to charge himself for attorney fees his expense is a ream of paper and some ink. On the flip side, the National Enquirer has a group of lawyers to defend themselves from all the other lawsuits you predict because of their style of reporting. So lets review: best lawyer in North Carolina who is working for free versus an expensive cadre of attorneys who have other lawsuits to deal with. The attorney who is working for free is dealing with an object that is real. It is not conjecture that he cheated with his wife based on observation of them in close proximity. The newspaper is claiming he fathered a child and produced a picture of him holding the child. It is easy to argue opinion of a relationship based on observed behavior. the National Enquirer can state that in their opinion Edwards and his love muffin touched and kissed each other in a way that suggests an affair. The newspaper has an easy case because they are arguing opinion. A child is not an opinion, it is flesh and blood reality. A DNA test proves them wrong. And while Edwards may have the status of fame, the mother and child do not. There are 3 lawsuits that can be aimed at the newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/86 "2008-08-08T17:47:06Z")
Why isn’t Bush suing the Enquirer? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/87 "2008-08-08T17:48:07Z")
By the way, why are you so obsessed with John Edwards’ penis? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/88 "2008-08-08T17:55:59Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] According to Wiki Edwards was known as the top plaintiffs’ attorney in North Carolina. He is the best of the best. Given that he doesn’t have to charge himself for attorney fees his expense is a ream of paper and some ink. [/quote] I am not questioning his lawyering skills, although I don’t know how much he know about this particular area of the law. > [@](#): > > On the flip side, the National Enquirer has a group of lawyers to defend themselves from all the other lawsuits you predict because of their style of reporting. That’s not what I said. I said, by reputation, the Enquirer is supposed to have excellent lawyers, and that the paper supposedly runs everything past them before printing it to determine if they could be sued for it. The paper has trafficked in gossip for a very long time and knows exactly where the lines are. > [@](#): > > the National Enquirer can state that in their opinion Edwards and his love muffin touched and kissed each other in a way that suggests an affair. The newspaper has an easy case because they are arguing opinion. A child is not an opinion, it is flesh and blood reality. A DNA test proves them wrong. But it does not prove they acted with reckless disregard for the truth, or malice toward Edwards. Being reckless is not the same as being in error, and he would have to prove the writer or editors or publishers did not care if the story was false when they printed it, perhaps citing conversations in the newsroom or notes or emails. (Or, to prove malice, he’d have to show they wanted to hurt him.) This is not easily done, and the paper has not often been sued successfully. He would also have to prove that his reputation was harmed, which sounds easy but considering the things people say about politicians every day, might not be simple. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/89 "2008-08-08T18:38:34Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] But it does not prove they acted with reckless disregard for the truth, or malice toward Edwards. Being reckless is not the same as being in error, and he would have to prove the writer or editors or publishers did not care if the story was false when they printed it, perhaps citing conversations in the newsroom or notes or emails. (Or, to prove malice, he’d have to show they wanted to hurt him.) This is not easily done, and the paper has not often been sued successfully. He would also have to prove that his reputation was harmed, which sounds easy but considering the things people say about politicians every day, might not be simple. [/QUOTE] Let me restate my point to make it a little clearer. A child is a real thing. As such, it’s existence is a yes or no question. The “fact” of the child is something that can be verified by the newspaper. Edwards does not have to show malice, he has to show that they were reckless in their ability to verify a simple fact. There is no gray area of opinion regarding this. And as I said before, there are 3 lawsuits that can be brought against the newspaper. Actually 4 because one of Edwards aides (Andrew Young) claims to be the father of the child. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/90 "2008-08-08T18:56:15Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] Let me restate my point to make it a little clearer. A child is a real thing. As such, it’s existence is a yes or no question. The “fact” of the child is something that can be verified by the newspaper. Edwards does not have to show malice, he has to show that they were reckless in their ability to verify a simple fact. There is no gray area of opinion regarding this. [/QUOTE] Unless I’ve missed something, the question is not “is there a child,” which is easily answered. It’s “who is the father,” which is not as readily apparent. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/91 "2008-08-08T19:07:24Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Unless I’ve missed something, the question is not “is there a child,” which is easily answered. It’s “who is the father,” which is not as readily apparent. [/QUOTE] I understand what you’re saying but the paternaty of the child is something that can be verified and 4 people can sue the paper based on that. What piece of information is the Newspaper holding that it relieves them of the charge of reckless disregard for the truth? A man has pubicly declared the child is his. The newspaper says otherwise. update as I’m typing this. Edwards just [admitted his affair](http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5441195&page=1) (but not the child). So his political career is toast. Screwing a bimbo (he admits he didn’t love her) while his wife fights cancer is not a vote getter. When you consider that he gave up valuable time with her to run for President he’s less than toast. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/92 "2008-08-08T19:11:01Z")
Why is he any more toast than McCain? McCain cheated on his wife after she was crippled in a car accident, dumped her for a beer heiress and he’s doing just fine politically. Oh wait, I forgot. It’s ok if you’re a Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/93 "2008-08-08T19:19:40Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] I understand what you’re saying but the paternaty of the child is something that can be verified and 4 people can sue the paper based on that. [/quote] Paternity can be easily verified, yes - although it can’t be easily verified by the Enquirer, so they wouldn’t be expected to verify it. They do not need to prove that Edwards is the father, though. Again - even if several other people were involved with this woman and the paper is wrong about Edwards being the father, that doesn’t necessarily mean they were reckless. > [@](#): > > What piece of information is the Newspaper holding that it relieves them of the charge of reckless disregard for the truth? A man has pubicly declared the child is his. The newspaper says otherwise. That doesn’t prove his declaration is true, and Edwards has apparently not taken a paternity test, so he can’t even say for sure that what the paper reported is false. Even he hadn’t just copped to this, the newspaper doesn’t need to hold any proof that Edwards is the father. It’s not reckless to say he’s the father if it’s possible he could be the father. They do not need to prove they were telling the truth. If he sues them, he is the plaintiff and _he_ needs to prove they disregarded the truth and harmed his reputation- and incidentally his reputation is going to be lower than whale shit in about half an hour, not that that matters now. Basically, if the paper can show it had a good reason to believe Edwards is the father, they are in the clear. And since he’s just admitted to sleeping with the mother, they’re all set. > [@](#): > > Screwing a bimbo (he admits he didn’t love her) while his wife fights cancer is not a vote getter. No, and even though it’s not my business I’d say it makes him a world-class asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/94 "2008-08-08T19:28:00Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Why is he any more toast than McCain? McCain cheated on his wife after she was crippled in a car accident, dumped her for a beer heiress and he’s doing just fine politically. Oh wait, I forgot. It’s ok if you’re a Republican. [/QUOTE] Cite that McCain had an affair because I can cite that Edwards did and was actively doing it while campaigning. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/95 "2008-08-08T19:33:51Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] Cite that McCain had an affair because I can cite that Edwards did and was actively doing it while campaigning. [/QUOTE] [He’s admitted to having affairs while married to his first wife.](http://www.azcentral.com/news/specials/mccain/articles/0301mccainbio-chapter5.html) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/96 "2008-08-08T19:34:59Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] Cite that McCain had an affair because I can cite that Edwards did and was actively doing it while campaigning. [/QUOTE] [Here:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cindy_mccain#Marriage_and_family) > [@](#): > > Hensley met John McCain in April 1979 at a military reception in Hawaii.[18] He was the U.S. Navy liaison officer to the United States Senate, almost eighteen years her senior.[19] McCain and Hensley quickly began a relationship,[19] traveling between Arizona and Washington to see each other.[10] John McCain pushed to end his marriage;[18] Carol McCain and John McCain stopped cohabiting in January 1980,[20] and Carol accepted a divorce in February of 1980,[18] effective in April 1980. John and Cindy were married on May 17, 1980 at the Arizona Biltmore Hotel in Phoenix.[10] They made a prenuptial agreement that kept most of her family’s assets under her name;[21] they have since kept their finances apart and file separate income tax returns.[21] ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/97 "2008-08-08T19:37:31Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] [He’s admitted to having affairs while married to his first wife.](http://www.azcentral.com/news/specials/mccain/articles/0301mccainbio-chapter5.html) [/QUOTE] You mean the article you posted where he was separated from his wife? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/98 "2008-08-08T19:41:28Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] You mean the article you posted where he was separated from his wife? [/QUOTE] And which says he adimts to multiple extramarital affairs. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/99 "2008-08-08T19:44:52Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] You mean the article you posted where he was separated from his wife? [/QUOTE] No, he admits to having multiple affairs before he was separated. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500/100 "2008-08-08T20:00:00Z")
[I don’t think he will be suing the Enquirer.](http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5441195&page=1) > [@](#): > > John Edwards repeatedly lied during his Presidential campaign about an extramarital affair with a novice filmmaker, the former Senator admitted to ABC News today. Forked. Edited: Argh, beaten. Sorry! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-alleged-lovechild-would-you-disqualify-him-as-a-vp-choice-due-to-this/457500.md?page=6)