# John Edwards equates Kerry to Jesus **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2004, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113 "2004-10-13T23:24:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/21 "2004-10-14T01:53:16Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > That analogy would apply if you wanted funding for a jet engine before the Wright brothers flew at Kitty Hawk. You have to crawl before you walk. And I don’t remember reading about the government funding the efforts of Orville and Wilbur. > > And we can get the proof from adult stem cells before harvesting embryos for the express purpose of experimentation. OK, you say this is true. _Scientists_ say this is not true. Who do you think is more likely to accurately assess what is needed to do scientific research? ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/22 "2004-10-14T01:59:59Z")
I mean, if you’re against stem-cell research on the basis of ethical grounds, that’s a legitimate position, but at least have the stones to accept the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/23 "2004-10-14T02:26:46Z")
I think the real question is whether or not Kerry is bigger than the Beatles. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/24 "2004-10-14T02:48:46Z")
Duffer, do you ever learn? Will you open up one or two of these fucking threads a week and get slammed when you misquote, improperly distill, or plain old buy into the bullshit of the right? Look, Asshole Bush has cut off funding for additional stem cell lines. He has in effect brought the entire fucking field to its knees. What are there, 22 fucking stem cell lines? It needs to be opened up again and good Americans like yourself need to take your heads out of your asses and take the president’s dick out of your mouths. Sam ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/25 "2004-10-14T02:57:47Z")
Does the federal funding really matter? If a private company thinks that it’s worth researching, say a big pharmaceutical company, then they could put all the money they wanted into it. Doesn’t matter if they do it in-house, fund a research program at an university, or do something else, does it? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/26 "2004-10-14T03:06:58Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Does the federal funding really matter? If a private company thinks that it’s worth researching, say a big pharmaceutical company, then they could put all the money they wanted into it. Doesn’t matter if they do it in-house, fund a research program at an university, or do something else, does it? The problem is that a lot of corporations don’t do pure research any more, so if the government doesn’t pick up the slack, then who will? Also, many of the companies that _do_ invest in pure research (which is what would be needed for stem cells) get the government to pick up the tab. And it’s possible, though I’m not certain on how the wording of the regulation is, but I **think** that if an institution which gets government money for _anything_ does stem cell research using any than the approved lines, they lose _all_ their funding from the government for _everything_. Which, if this is correct, and I’m more than willing to admit that it might not be, would mean that a university couldn’t enroll students who were getting student loans or Pell Grants. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/27 "2004-10-14T03:16:02Z")
Can we look at the loaded phrase “harvesting embryos” for a minute? Fact: Right now, today, hundreds of embryos created for implantation by couples having trouble conceiving are destroyed each year when they are no longer needed. They throw them in the furnace. They are _wasted_, get it? They could supply more than enough stem cells for research without having one new abortion performed or one embryo created just to harvest the cells. These embryos are being destroyed to no purpose. Wouldn’t it be better to learn something from them rather than just tossing them out because the phrase “embryo harvest” has a high ick factor? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/28 "2004-10-14T03:52:06Z")
Big pharmaceutical companies are about profits. That’s why they spend more on marketing than they do on research and development (according to a book coming out by the former editor of the one of the major medical journals. I think that is the _New England Journal of Medicine_, but it might have been JAMA.) I doubt that Christopher Reeve would have objected to his name being used. The day before he died, he called Kerry and left a message for him to keep on pushing for the research. **duffer** , did it ever occur to you that there might be more than one moral and ethical take on the issue? Some of us find that it is George W. Bush who has “damned the consequences.” You have obviously never cried with a friend who is a full time caregiver for an Alzeimer’s patient while she herself has cancer – or loved a child whose head was burned in a fire – and had some chime-head politician who _uses_ religious issues preach about how _unethical_ it is to take a microscopic embryo out of the freezer with the hope that it might bring _life_ to someone who is dying. What are the options? I would **seriously** like to know what becomes of the remaining embryos that are created but not used during _in vitro_ fertilization? (If this was answered elsewhere and I didn’t see it, please excuse my asking again.) Your title went beyond hyperbole. It was an out and out lie. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/29 "2004-10-14T05:32:32Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > You have obviously never cried with a friend who is a full time caregiver for an Alzeimer’s patient while she herself has cancer And you didn’t read where I said my grandmother died of Alzheimer’s and both my parents died before I was 30 of cancer. Fuck you. I’d let you know how I feel but I want to avoid being banned. How fucking dare you try to equate something that has affected my family in such a way to a friend of yours. I hope your friend knows what kind of person you are. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/30 "2004-10-14T05:44:01Z")
I wanted to read about John Edward crossing over and talking to Jebus. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/31 "2004-10-14T05:54:53Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > And you didn’t read where I said my grandmother died of Alzheimer’s and both my parents died before I was 30 of cancer. I’m genuinely sorry to hear that. It can’t have been easy. But it makes your attitude on the whole question of stem cell research all the more puzzling, since you, more than most here, have been affected by the diseases that that research might help cure. I just don’t understand that at all. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/32 "2004-10-14T06:34:01Z")
> [@Early Out](#): > > I’m genuinely sorry to hear that. It can’t have been easy. But it makes your attitude on the whole question of stem cell research all the more puzzling, since you, more than most here, have been affected by the diseases that that research might help cure. I just don’t understand that at all. I’m not confused in any way about stem cell research. I’m about to concede the cascade of anti-Bush dopers and just give up the argument. I don’t know how to make it any more clear. That said, I’ll make one more argument to the rest of the dopers here. The current situation is that there are some embryonic stem cells available for research, and the Bush administration has portioned \ billion (or million, not sure) amount for it. In addition, there are studies using adult stem cells. Also paid for with federal funds. What I want (before I lay the bomb)\* is some proof that using stem cells from people that can say “Yes, doc, use the cells for research with the federal money” to actually come up with something that works. Granted, embryonic stem cells\*\* MIGHT\*\* be a cure all to human fraility, but I think we should take a safer approach and make damn sure it’s viable. This thread is starting to get long and I have yet to see a cite where stems are proven to do any good in practical applications. Now, I understand the arguments coming about using embryonic tissue, but the theory also says adult stems can be used for some ailments. Give me a study proving it that way, and I guarantee the embryonic phase will be implemented within 2 years by all to the left of me. (The general population, apparently) People have to realize this is a huge ethical case for doctors. Whether you want it to be or not. \*Now for the bomb. I’ve alluded to it before and still not sure what forum to put it in (suggesstions?). My wife and I have to do in-vitro and were asked what to do with any embryos that were unused. We had the option to freeze them for later use or discard them. I asked if they could be donated for another couple. (Hey, I’m not a complete asshole). The nurse told us it was better to either freeze for later use or “discard” them. We asked if the embryos could be donated to another couple. Nope. No chance there. There is no donating embryos to couples that have that as a last chance. (Getting on a Pit skew here, so I’ll end it. More to come. Maybe) ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/33 "2004-10-14T06:37:16Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Can we look at the loaded phrase “harvesting embryos” for a minute? Fact: Right now, today, hundreds of embryos created for implantation by couples having trouble conceiving are destroyed each year when they are no longer needed. They throw them in the furnace. They are _wasted_, get it? They could supply more than enough stem cells for research without having one new abortion performed or one embryo created just to harvest the cells. These embryos are being destroyed to no purpose. Wouldn’t it be better to learn something from them rather than just tossing them out because the phrase “embryo harvest” has a high ick factor? Shoot. Ah always _love_ it when fall comes and we’re a harvestin’ the embryos. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/34 "2004-10-14T06:50:05Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > And it’s possible, though I’m not certain on how the wording of the regulation is, but I **think** that if an institution which gets government money for _anything_ does stem cell research using any than the approved lines, they lose _all_ their funding from the government for _everything_. This has been my understanding ever since the Prez’s pen touched the bill. Sam ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/35 "2004-10-14T07:00:55Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > And it’s possible, though I’m not certain on how the wording of the regulation is, but I **think** that if an institution which gets government money for _anything_ does stem cell research using any than the approved lines, they lose _all_ their funding from the government for _everything_. Which, if this is correct, and I’m more than willing to admit that it might not be, would mean that a university couldn’t enroll students who were getting student loans or Pell Grants. Can anyone back this up? I don’t think I’ve claimed proof of the OP (yes, **chefguy** it was supposed to be GD) but I’d like to see something. Especially a University that has lost funding (not a cut) because of embryonic stem cell research. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/36 "2004-10-14T07:06:12Z")
**Duffer** , the title of your OP is shitting me. You deliberately made an inflammatory statement you knew to be false for the purposes of provoking argument. There’s a word for this… ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/37 "2004-10-14T07:12:16Z")
> [@Atticus Finch](#): > > **Duffer** , the title of your OP is shitting me. You deliberately made an inflammatory statement you knew to be false for the purposes of provoking argument. There’s a word for this… Ummm…The OP was a play on preachers that promise to heal the lame during revivals. Your post is accusing me of being a troll. Just a bit of a difference. But thanks for playing. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/38 "2004-10-14T07:12:52Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Can we look at the loaded phrase “harvesting embryos” for a minute? Fact: Right now, today, hundreds of embryos created for implantation by couples having trouble conceiving are destroyed each year when they are no longer needed. They throw them in the furnace. They are _wasted_, get it? They could supply more than enough stem cells for research without having one new abortion performed or one embryo created just to harvest the cells. These embryos are being destroyed to no purpose. Wouldn’t it be better to learn something from them rather than just tossing them out because the phrase “embryo harvest” has a high ick factor? Now _there’s_ a reasonable Republican. I was going to come in here and say this, but you beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/39 "2004-10-14T07:18:30Z")
**Duffer,** you are absolutely, positively, the most bizarrely bat-shit loonball crazy-ass mother fucker that I have ever met in my entire life. Bar none. Embryos are being trashed. Thrown away. Completely and utterly fucking wasted. You oppose any federal money from being used to look at them and their possible therapeutic effects because we can’t prove that it will work. You want absolute, uncontroversial proof that something will work before even a dime is spent upon researching it. Insane ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113/40 "2004-10-14T07:50:15Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Ummm…The OP was a play on preachers that promise to heal the lame during revivals. Your post is accusing me of being a troll. Just a bit of a difference. But thanks for playing. I get the joke, moron. That’s not my complaint. My complaint is that you misstated someone’s reasonable position just so you could beat a straw man. The Kerry-Edwards campaign says something like “Let’s do the following things to improve the health system…” and you represent it as “Kerry says he’ll fix everything that’s wrong and we will live in a utopia and never die! What a liar!”. This isn’t the first time you’ve done this, even not the first time you’ve done this in response to Kerry-Edwards campaign statements. You’re a moron who deliberately misstates another’s position in your OP in a cack-handed attempt to piss off the board’s lefties. That’s pathetic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-equates-kerry-to-jesus/269113.md?page=3)