# John Edwards is a very impressive Presidential candidate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2007, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017 "2007-02-06T00:47:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2007, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/241 "2007-02-11T00:34:47Z")
He’s _campaigning_. Telling audiences what they want to hear to get their support. You’ve heard of it. Before you tell me he was speaking to Israelis, remember that the conference he was speaking to (by satellite) was sponsored by the \*American \* Jewish Committee, a pretty influential organization whose support is good to have in a US election. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2007, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/242 "2007-02-11T02:18:07Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] He’s _campaigning_. Telling audiences what they want to hear to get their support. You’ve heard of it. [/quote] When can I take seriously what a politician says? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2007, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/243 "2007-02-11T02:19:01Z")
That’s a whole thread on its own, innit? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2007, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/244 "2007-02-11T11:33:02Z")
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you [The Pandagon Papers.](http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2007/02/the_pandagon_pa.html) (Although it has apparently been disappeared, this was posted in the comments section of Edwards blog by a reader who thought the e-mails were legit. Enjoy.) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2007, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/245 "2007-02-11T14:22:05Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] He’s _campaigning_. Telling audiences what they want to hear to get their support. You’ve heard of it. [/QUOTE] Ah. But ya’know in today’s media omniprescent world any smart politician knows that they are always pandering to all of us at the same time. (Dean’s “Yehaw” was pandering to that small crowd too.) The public gets upset when a politician confirms their impression of him as an unprincipaled say whatever I think you want to hear slimeball. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2007, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/246 "2007-02-11T16:11:22Z")
Right, so here’s the point. Either Edwards believed what he said, or he didn’t. If he did believe it, then… what an ass! If he didn’t believe it, then… what an ass! So, whatever the case is… what an ass! “He was campaigning” doesn’t make it better, it arguably makes it worse. Remember, the title of this thread is “Johnathan Edwards is a fine presidential candidate,” meant in an unironic, approving sense. Hence the relevance of what I’ve posted about him. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2007, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/247 "2007-02-11T22:11:18Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] “He was campaigning” doesn’t make it better, it arguably makes it worse. [/QUOTE] I agree with you. I find that quotation very troubling, though I don’t know, precisely, what he was trying to say. It seems there are a couple of interpretations, but I’m not happy about any of them (that I’ve come up with, at least). ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/248 "2007-02-13T03:14:21Z")
This just in: [Amanda Marcotte resigned her position today as Edwards’ blogmistress](http://pandagon.net/2007/02/12/announcement/). I’m not sure if this was really Amanda’s call or if she was pressured into resigning by the campaign. I hate that it’s going to be seen as a victory by the Malkins and Donohues of the world. But it’s probably for the best. The extra scrutiny this mess will bring to her every word will cancel out a lot of the benefit of hiring her in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/249 "2007-02-13T04:08:25Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] I don’t understand your point. What’s the relevance of who the audience was in this case? -FrL- [/QUOTE] I think you’d agree that Isreal would be more than a little concerned about Iran having nuclear weapons, right? Is there anyone that wants to see Iran have nuclear weapons? What part of his speech did you have a problem with? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/250 "2007-02-13T04:10:48Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] Is there anyone that wants to see Iran have nuclear weapons? What part of his speech did you have a problem with? [/QUOTE] > [@Frylock](#): > > Yeahbut, he’s talking about going after iran, “educating” the american people to get them to “go along” with it, equating intelligence with “trusting the president…” That pretty much sums it up, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/251 "2007-02-13T04:27:24Z")
Actually it doesn’t. But maybe he’ll answer. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/252 "2007-02-13T04:52:34Z")
\*\*jsgoddess \*\*, I’m sorry if that came off as snarky. I tried to post twice before that and lost my posts. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/253 "2007-02-13T07:29:58Z")
What do you mean by saying “it doesn’t?” I think her post does a fine job of summing the problems I had with Edwards’ speech. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/254 "2007-02-13T11:10:55Z")
[QUOTE=DoctorJ] This just in: [Amanda Marcotte resigned her position today as Edwards’ blogmistress](http://pandagon.net/2007/02/12/announcement/). I’m not sure if this was really Amanda’s call or if she was pressured into resigning by the campaign. I hate that it’s going to be seen as a victory by the Malkins and Donohues of the world. But it’s probably for the best. The extra scrutiny this mess will bring to her every word will cancel out a lot of the benefit of hiring her in the first place. [/QUOTE] Right, so far as that goes. But I wish that the Edwards campaign had quietly given Marcotte a two-week paid vacation to some upscale Caribbean resort with lots of umbrella drinks and no Web connection, and accepted her resignation once she got back. Give the whole thing a bit more time to become old news, and all that. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/255 "2007-02-14T01:47:29Z")
[Shakes](http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2007/02/announcement.html): > [@](#): > > I regret to say that I have also resigned from the Edwards campaign. In spite of what was widely reported, I was not hired as a blogger, but a part-time technical advisor, which is the role I am vacating. > > I would like to make very clear that the campaign did not push me out, nor was my resignation the back-end of some arrangement made last week. This was a decision I made, with the campaign’s reluctant support, because my remaining the focus of sustained ideological attacks was inevitably making me a liability to the campaign, and making me increasingly uncomfortable with my and my family’s level of exposure. > > I understand that there will be progressive bloggers who feel I am making the wrong decision, and I offer my sincerest apologies to them. One of the hardest parts of this decision was feeling as though I’m letting down my peers, who have been so supportive. > > There will be some who clamor to claim victory for my resignation, but I caution them that in doing so, they are tacitly accepting responsibility for those who have deluged my blog and my inbox with vitriol and veiled threats. It is not right-wing bloggers, nor people like Bill Donohue or Bill O’Reilly, who prompted nor deserve credit for my resignation, no matter how much they want it, but individuals who used public criticisms of me as an excuse to unleash frightening ugliness, the likes of which anyone with a modicum of respect for responsible discourse would denounce without hesitation. > > This is a win for no one. Oh, fuck. It’s not a win for no one. It’s a win for the brownshirts like Donohue, and those who would use them to further their political ends. Donohue says he speaks for Catholics, and I don’t hear any bishops or cardinals gainsaying him. Where’s the Roman Catholic Church, while the brownshirts speak in its name? If they won’t stand up against hatred and bigotry in the name of the Church, then what a great church they are, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/256 "2007-02-14T02:06:54Z")
> [@](#): > > If they won’t stand up against hatred and bigotry in the name of the Church, then what a great church they are, huh? As opposed to you standing up for hatred and bigotry in the name of Democratic politics? The woman is a mean-spirited bigot. She has a history of posting vicious comments about people who don’t think like her. She’s off the team because she took heat for being what she is. Boo hoo. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/257 "2007-02-14T03:18:04Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Donohue says he speaks for Catholics, and I don’t hear any bishops or cardinals gainsaying him. Where’s the Roman Catholic Church, while the brownshirts speak in its name? [/QUOTE] Again, I posted quotes from liberal Democratic Catholics who were also quite upset with this whole affair. Are they also brownshirts, or are they good people who felt genuinely insulted? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/258 "2007-02-14T13:22:49Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Again, I posted quotes from liberal Democratic Catholics who were also quite upset with this whole affair. Are they also brownshirts, or are they good people who felt genuinely insulted? [/QUOTE] They don’t speak for the Roman Catholic Church. Only the hierarchy of the RCC does that. The liberal Catholics you cited don’t claim to broadly represent Roman Catholicism, and as such no response is needed from the hierarchy to what they said. But Donohue makes that claim on behalf of his group. So is the RCC condoning Donohue’s claim that he acts on behalf of the faith, or not? Let’s have it. [QUOTE=Sam Stone] As opposed to you standing up for hatred and bigotry in the name of Democratic politics? [/quote] A for-instance, please, or we take this to the Pit. > [@](#): > > The woman is a mean-spirited bigot. She has a history of posting vicious comments about people who don’t think like her. Please cite posts by McEwan that back your claim. > [@](#): > > She’s off the team because she took heat for being what she is. > > Boo hoo. She’s off the team because people threatened her and her family with all sorts of violence. Do you think that’s just a perfectly fair response to the expression of controversial opinions? I loathe Donohue, but I would not dream of sending him threats of violence and death, even if I think he deserved a taste of his own medicine. And I would be aghast if the netroots chose that form of response to his hatred and bigotry. Apparently you feel differently, and if so, that would certainly lower my respect for you. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/259 "2007-02-14T14:50:49Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] His house is actually about 10,400 sq. ft. … [/QUOTE] Whick still makes it five times bigger than mine, which is a three-bedroom, two-bath home built for a family of five or six. John Edwards may be many things, some of them even commendable, but he ain’t “of the people.” I’ll say it again – the 2008 presidential election is the Democrats’ to lose, and I’m confident we’ll find a way to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/260 "2007-02-14T15:22:03Z")
[QUOTE=Sunrazor] John Edwards may be many things, some of them even commendable, but he ain’t “of the people.” [/QUOTE] Oh bullshit. He came from a lower-middle-class background, and is fully familiar with the struggles that come with living in that social class. As he has said many times, he wants to ensure that America remains the land of opportunity, where people from the lower classes have a fair opportunity to succeed as he has done. It is silly to punish the man for being successful. Must he take a vow of poverty? Or do you think he’s forgotten what it was like for his parents trying to make ends meet? I see his wealth as a positive. Seems to me it makes him incorruptible. You can’t buy a man who has all the money he needs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017.md?page=14)