# John Edwards is a very impressive Presidential candidate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2007, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017 "2007-02-06T00:47:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/41 "2007-02-06T14:20:13Z")
Why is winning settlements for people through the legal system such a bad thing? If you’re wronged and can prove it in court, you deserve to be made whole. Isn’t that what Edwards did? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/42 "2007-02-06T14:35:07Z")
[QUOTE=China Guy] If he wasn’t a successful tort lawyer, he would have been whoring it up for Enron or some other big business. And I don’t mean that in a good way. [/QUOTE] **China Guy** , you seem to have a _personal_ issue with trial lawyers. I don’t understand that venom at all. Trial lawyers working on a contingent fee basis provide the only access to the courts for members of the lower and middle classes who have been wronged by the wealthy and powerful (and who can’t afford to pay some silk-stocking lawyer’s hourly fees to seek redress). What would be your advice to someone who’s had the wrong leg amputated by an indifferent doctor? Suck it up? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/43 "2007-02-06T14:46:49Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] **China Guy** , you seem to have a _personal_ issue with trial lawyers. I don’t understand that venom at all. Trial lawyers working on a contingent fee basis provide the only access to the courts for members of the lower and middle classes who have been wronged by the wealthy and powerful (and who can’t afford to pay some silk-stocking lawyer’s hourly fees to seek redress). What would be your advice to someone who’s had the wrong leg amputated by an indifferent doctor? Suck it up? [/QUOTE] That’s exactly right. It is also worth pointing out that for every successful tort lawyer like Edwards, there are ten that took great financial risks on a big case and failed. It baffles me that plaintiff’s lawyers are the subject of so much scorn by so many on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/44 "2007-02-06T15:03:37Z")
Populism is getting an undeserved bad rep here. The message isn’t “rich people are bad”. The real message is “everybody should have an opportunity to get rich but the people who are rich don’t deserve any special favors from the government.” There’s nothing hypocritical about a millionaire saying millionaires don’t need more tax breaks. If anything, it’s hypocritical for a politican to say that millionaires deserve more tax breaks while not mentioning that he himself is a millionaire and will personally benefit from his proposal. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/45 "2007-02-06T15:23:26Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] Look, do the right thing, or don’t do the right thing. Be part of the solution, or keep being part of the problem, but spare us all the faux concern over trumped up nonsense cut and pasted from right wing blogs. This isn’t 2000, or 2004, and frankly, your shit is tired. [/quote] I don’t like Edwards. At all. It has nothing to do with “trumped-up nonsense.” I’ll vote for him over any Republican, just to punish the Pubs for supporting Bush for so long, but I sure hope it’s someone else. Like Obama. Is that so tough to understand? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/46 "2007-02-06T15:42:07Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] Get ready for a whole slew of “Wow, I really think I should vote for a Democrat, but I just could never bring myself to vote for [fill in the blank] because of [suddenly crucial personal issue X]” from all of our conservative friends. [/QUOTE] If I say, “I don’t want to vote for Hillary Clinton because of her stance on the war” am I going to be accused of being part of the problem and a conservative? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/47 "2007-02-06T16:00:23Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] That’s exactly right. It is also worth pointing out that for every successful tort lawyer like Edwards, there are ten that took great financial risks on a big case and failed. It baffles me that plaintiff’s lawyers are the subject of so much scorn by so many on this board. [/QUOTE] I don’t see why it should be baffling. Tort lawyers are often seen as parasites getting emotional juries to dole out big awards from “deep pocket” defendants, and sucking off the lion’s share of those awards to become filthy rich. You can argue that it shouldn’t BE the image, but you can’t act baffled over the fact that this image exists. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/48 "2007-02-06T16:03:57Z")
I have some questions about edwards: 1. his activities as a medical malpractice lawyer: he made lots of money, arguing cases against doctors, on behalf of clients who had children with various birth defects, injuries, etc. To what extent did his activities drive up the cost of obstetrical care in S. Carolina? 2. S. Caroilin is a largely rural, poor state. Did Mr. Edwards activities contribute to the econmy of S. carolina? or did he result in companies choosing NOT to locate in S. Carolina. My impression is that edwards is an ambulance chaser, who was successful in transferring a huge amount of wealth toward himself and his clients. whetther that has been at the expense of the state, i would like to know. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/49 "2007-02-06T16:12:33Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] If I say, “I don’t want to vote for Hillary Clinton because of her stance on the war” am I going to be accused of being part of the problem and a conservative? [/QUOTE] If I can speak for him, that’s not what he’s saying at all. He’s talking about the people who claim they would vote for a Democrat, then find 500 reasons for not doing so. Just talk. [QUOTE=Little Nemo] Populism is getting an undeserved bad rep here. The message isn’t “rich people are bad”. The real message is “everybody should have an opportunity to get rich but the people who are rich don’t deserve any special favors from the government.” There’s nothing hypocritical about a millionaire saying millionaires don’t need more tax breaks. If anything, it’s hypocritical for a politican to say that millionaires deserve more tax breaks while not mentioning that he himself is a millionaire and will personally benefit from his proposal. [/QUOTE] Very true. I think the average American is capable of looking past the Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous routine that the Republican’s are trying to sell. It’s going to be a non-issue. As far as not liking him because he’s swarmy, I’ve never gotten this whole voting for someone based on likeability. People voted for Bush because he appeared to be someone you’d like to have a beer with. So much for that. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/50 "2007-02-06T16:16:41Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] As far as not liking him because he’s swarmy, I’ve never gotten this whole voting for someone based on likeability. People voted for Bush because he appeared to be someone you’d like to have a beer with. So much for that. [/QUOTE] Fallacious. Just because likeability is clearly not a sufficient condition for success as President doesn’t mean it’s not a necessary condition. I think it is. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/51 "2007-02-06T16:32:28Z")
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak] I don’t see why it should be baffling. Tort lawyers are often seen as parasites getting emotional juries to dole out big awards from “deep pocket” defendants, and sucking off the lion’s share of those awards to become filthy rich. You can argue that it shouldn’t BE the image, but you can’t act baffled over the fact that this image exists. [/QUOTE] I am baffled that it exists on this website, where such myths are routinely discredited. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/52 "2007-02-06T16:44:37Z")
I guess those TV ads I see are myths too. You know, the ones with the lawyer telling you that if someone hurt you, you could get a CASH AWARD, if you hire them. Or the ones in the subway touting the ability of the lawyer to get you a BIG SETTLEMENT if your child had a birth defect. Clearly these men are the salt of the earth, looking out for the little guy, the 28,000 sqft mansion is just a happy side benefit to uplifting the downtrodden victims. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/53 "2007-02-06T16:53:48Z")
Hmmm. Myth. Eh? Edwards portrays himself as the champion of the common man. It is just hard to swallow that when the typical trial lawyer pockets a third to a half of the proceeds. Sure sometimes trial lawyers take cases to trail at some significant expense and lose, but often that was because the case had no merit to start with. Oftentimes they get a quick settlement even on cases with little merit (from those unwilling to gamble on the fairness of the jury faced with a sympathetic plaintiff and a skillfull manipulator of the facts) and get the same third to half of the take for virtually no investment whatsoever. Edwards may or may not be a parasite, and trial lawyers certainly have a role to play in our system even if I think that there has to be a better way than these absurd percentages going to these guys, but they are not in it for the good of the people. He takes from the not so rich and gives to himself nearly as much as he gives to the various allegedly wronged to the tune of living a lifestyle so gaudy that it makes Paris Hilton look tasteful. His Robin Hood motif rings somewhat hollow. He’s a phoney and he comes off as a phoney. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/54 "2007-02-06T17:14:47Z")
Here’s the deal, plain and simple. If a majority of the people see Edwards as a phony then he’s done, even if the assumptions are irrational or untrue. It won’t matter what his true motives are or whether or not he believes in one thing or another. Sounds like a majority of Dopers feel he’s a phony. He’s probably finished even before he gets started. FTR, I liked him the last time around and I’m conservative. I’m holding out on any thoughts about his current status for the time being. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/55 "2007-02-06T17:21:03Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Here’s one way, and the way that grates on me the most. He ran for the Senate from NC (my state) knowing full well he would run for President in two years. The last four years of his term he was effectively AWOL. He promised to do a job and reneged. The Senate seat was just a stepping stone for him. I wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him. I am really hoping for a Democratic victory, but voting for Edwards will be difficult, if not impossible. [/QUOTE] That’s understandable but a lot of politicians do that. Not that it excuses anything but I think most politicians that decide to run for a higher office or accept a job with a current administration do this. It happened with our (NJ) Governor Christie Whitman when she took a job with the Bush Administration. Kerry was a senator and if he was elected he would have done the same thing. Wasn’t Bush governor of Texas when he was elected? **DSeid** , you opinions are valid, you don’t like him. McCain could live in a grass hut and give out dollar bills and I wouldn’t like him. Edwards isn’t my first choice but I agree with the OP that he’s an impressive candidate and could be a strong contender in the primaries. Since probably most of the politicians out there are lawyers I don’t think this is going to be a deciding factor for voting for him anymore than his house is. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/56 "2007-02-06T17:36:53Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] That’s understandable but a lot of politicians do that. Not that it excuses anything but I think most politicians that decide to run for a higher office or accept a job with a current administration do this. It happened with our (NJ) Governor Christie Whitman when she took a job with the Bush Administration. Kerry was a senator and if he was elected he would have done the same thing. Wasn’t Bush governor of Texas when he was elected? [/QUOTE] He never finished his first term in office. Was Kerry a first term Senator? Edwards took an oath to serve the people of NC for six years; an oath, IMO, that he never intended to uphold. Not only that, but abandoning his seat gave it to the Republicans. He is a self-serving, lying sack of shit. Take it from someone who has seen his song and dance up close. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/57 "2007-02-06T17:44:29Z")
And George W Bush took an oath to serve the citizens of Texas for four years starting in 1999. Big deal. Given a choice between someone that wins settlements for people wronged by corporations and someone that gives lucrative no-bid contracts to his cronies, I’ll take the former. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/58 "2007-02-06T17:44:36Z")
I’m not defending him on that and it’s perfectly understandable that you’d feel that way. I’m sort of shocked by the monthly straw poll at Daily Kos. It’s very early but so far Edwards is ahead. I’m sort of surprised by that. > **[Daily Kos](https://www.dailykos.com/)** > > Daily Kos is a progressive news site that fights for democracy by giving our audience information and resources to win elections and impact government. Our coverage is assiduously factual, ethical, and unapologetically liberal. We amplify what we... I voted other because I’d like to see Gore run. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/59 "2007-02-06T17:55:21Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] I agree. His ‘Two Americas’ populism is hard to swallow, coming from a guy who just built the most expensive home in his state. His perfect teeth, $500 haircuts, and $2000 suits just don’t mix well with a message that the rich have too much and it’s time to give more to the poor. And it’s doubly grating to listen to a message about how we all need to conserve and be better stewards of the environment while he lives in a 20,000 square foot home on a huge plot cut out of the pristine wilderness. Edwards would make a great used car salesman, if he were selling used Rolls Royces. [/QUOTE] So what? **Anybody** who has a serious shot at the presidency nowadays will be rich. But some really are more populist than others. It doesn’t make them hypocrites. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2007, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017/60 "2007-02-06T18:00:30Z")
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak] I guess those TV ads I see are myths too. You know, the ones with the lawyer telling you that if someone hurt you, you could get a CASH AWARD, if you hire them. Or the ones in the subway touting the ability of the lawyer to get you a BIG SETTLEMENT if your child had a birth defect. [/quote] What’s your point? That lots of these lawyers advertise? That they do so in a cheesy way? Fine. All true. That doesn’t make them any more unethical than Coca-Cola or the local community college. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Clearly these men are the salt of the earth, looking out for the little guy, the 28,000 sqft mansion is just a happy side benefit to uplifting the downtrodden victims. Plenty of people live in big houses and do far less for the little guy. My point isn’t that trial lawyers are better, or more noble, than other professionals. Far from it. My point is that they aren’t worse. I think you’re confusing the two. > [@DSeid](#): > > Edwards portrays himself as the champion of the common man. It is just hard to swallow that when the typical trial lawyer pockets a third to a half of the proceeds. Sure sometimes trial lawyers take cases to trail at some significant expense and lose, but often that was because the case had no merit to start with. > Oftentimes they get a quick settlement even on cases with little merit (from those unwilling to gamble on the fairness of the jury faced with a sympathetic plaintiff and a skillfull manipulator of the facts) and get the same third to half of the take for virtually no investment whatsoever. Edwards may or may not be a parasite, and trial lawyers certainly have a role to play in our system even if I think that there has to be a better way than these absurd percentages going to these guys, but they are not in it for the good of the people. He takes from the not so rich and gives to himself nearly as much as he gives to the various allegedly wronged to the tune of living a lifestyle so gaudy that it makes Paris Hilton look tasteful. His Robin Hood motif rings somewhat hollow. On what basis do you judge that many cases with little merit are settled? Can you point us to a study of some kind? On what basis do you judge that tort lawyers, on average, live a gaudier lifestyle than other professionals? On what basis do you judge that juries are frequently duped into giving large awards in unmerited cases? I think your complaint boils down to little more than speculation and assumption. And your key point, that plaintiff’s attorneys take too much money from these judgments, presents a false choice. Unless there is some aspect of the market preventing fair competition, if lawyers could handle the risk of taking a lower contingent fee, they would. Where is the market failure here? Can you explain why good lawyers don’t take smaller fees in order to get many more clients? You can’t choose between higher contingent fees and lower ones, you can choose between some help for the poor or no help. I choose some help. I think a lot of people hear that a woman spilled coffee on herself and wins millions of dollars (or stories like this) and think that personal injury lawyers are scum. They never get the real story behind these cases, or appreciate the financial risk associated with being a plaintiff’s attorney. I don’t think these lawyers are among the most noble of professions. But it beats Giuliani and Romney’s private sector service in the name of helping people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-edwards-is-a-very-impressive-presidential-candidate/391017.md?page=4)