# John Gruden resigns as coach for being a bigot **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** football-nfl\ **Created:** [October 14, 2021, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480 "2021-10-14T13:19:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/21 "2021-10-14T18:20:49Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > So, for anybody who might complain that this is “cancel culture”, it instead strikes me as a cold business decision. These aren’t mutually exclusive - really, they’re the same thing. To be clear, I am not saying this is a problem or that Gruden got a raw deal or anything like that. But when businesses make a decision to fire someone to avoid or mitigate the public backlash, it’s because they fear the consequences of any loss of business that’s going to come from an environment that some would label “cancel culture.” If there was no “cancel culture” out there, then businesses would just look the other way and continue on as usual. This incident wouldn’t have resulted in a resignation even 10 years ago, so the cultural changes (including “cancel culture”) are the difference. That said, NFL coaches mostly come from a macho good ol’ boys club that also tends to be more conservative - chances are that more than half of them say shit like this, so it’s one of those things where Gruden was dumb enough to put it in record/get caught rather than being significantly outside the norm. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/22 "2021-10-14T18:23:27Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > So, for anybody who might complain that this is “cancel culture”, it instead strikes me as a cold business decision. Any such comment - and I’m sure one’s been made - would hold enough irony to create its own magnetic field; one of the emails was Gruden saying Colin Kaepernick and Eric Reid should be fired, for protesting police brutality. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/23 "2021-10-14T18:31:54Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > That said, NFL coaches mostly come from a macho good ol’ boys club that also tends to be more conservative - chances are that more than half of them say shit like this, so it’s one of those things where Gruden was dumb enough to put it in record/get caught rather than being significantly outside the norm. It will be interesting to see. While Gruden was very likely not the only one making dumb, locker-room comments in email, there are very likely others who did the same thing, and are buried in that trove of emails - and they know it. Will anyone just come out early and say “Hey, I said some pretty stupid shit in some emails to Dan Snyder a few years ago - and it’s likely to eventually come out. I apologize ahead of time.” Would this lessen the consequences for that person? ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/24 "2021-10-14T18:41:51Z")
I’ve thought that there’s money to be made in developing an app like the old “Clippy” Office Assistant that would pop up anytime a famous person is about to send an e-mail: “It look like you’re sending a racist tirade to a colleague at this official address. Did you know that e-mails are fully discoverable in criminal and civil proceedings? Would you like me to delete your 37 uses of the “n-word”?” ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/25 "2021-10-14T19:33:21Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > But when businesses make a decision to fire someone to avoid or mitigate the public backlash, it’s because they fear the consequences of any loss of business that’s going to come from an environment that some would label “cancel culture.” True enough, but if Gruden hadn’t resigned, he wouldn’t have been fired to avoid public backlash. He would have been fired because his effectiveness as a coach would have been undermined. Most of his players are Black and one is openly gay. Why would they continue to respect him? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/26 "2021-10-14T19:43:00Z")
Oh, I’m sure they would have trotted out the old “distraction” gambit. In this case, they may have even had a point. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/27 "2021-10-14T19:45:37Z")
Great idea. Also, a Zoom meeting function that takes users offline the instant it detects nudity or handling of certain body parts. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/28 "2021-10-14T19:49:30Z")
When this first came out, the impression I got was that it was one email. I thought it might have been one of those situations where one gets angry and vents in a very unfortunate way. It turns out, however, that it was a number of emails spanning several years. How could he not realize that he was digging his own professional grave even back then? That amazes me. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/29 "2021-10-14T19:49:41Z")
I think it’s worth noting that Bruce Allen, the former president at Washington (the former ethnic slur team) that Gruden was exchanging emails with, was replaced by this guy: [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/Jason_Wright_2021_%28cropped%29.jpg/220px-Jason_Wright_2021_%28cropped%29.jpg) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/Jason_Wright_2021_%28cropped%29.jpg/220px-Jason_Wright_2021_%28cropped%29.jpg) That organization has been in damage control for a couple years and I expect they will be for some time. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/30 "2021-10-14T20:19:41Z")
He was sending personal emails to a personal friend but to his business email address. This is not uncommon, though many of us have learned how to curate our online life better than that. It was even the subject of some Congressional action not that long ago. If Washington wasn’t such a cesspool of bad behavior, it’s conceivable none of these emails would ever have gone public. It’s only because they were ALSO investigating that team that anything about Gruden got out. And we haven’t seen any emails from Snyder or Allen or several others. It’s more than likely there’s equally terrible things that the NFL will likely never release. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/31 "2021-10-15T00:36:03Z")
Agree with “good riddance” and, I, too, am looking forward to never seeing or hearing from him again. I saw an interview with Keyshawn Johnson who said something I’ve thought for years, but could never accurately articulate: Gruden was just a used car salesman. He would talk about how much “I just love football, man” and “Boy this play is so great, man” and do all his talk and excitement…but he won a championship with a roster another (inferior imo) coach built and did Jack ever since. He was insufferable on ESPN and he’s also the type of person that I 100% believe would say all this shit. Bye Felicia. (oh sorry, that’s probably too “urban” for Gruden and he wouldn’t like it.) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/32 "2021-10-15T03:11:07Z")
Yeah really. And like others said, probably just one of many. (Meanwhile, smh at how it turns out the _name_ of the Washington Football Team (new name: the Washington Abject Apology) was the least of its problems… (No, seriously, the shit with the cheerleaders?? Wha’ the f…??? I could see that as the plot of some soft-porn vid, but for real in the 2000s???) ) ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/33 "2021-10-15T03:34:35Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Yeah really. And like others said, probably just one of many. > > (Meanwhile, smh at how it turns out the _name_ of the Washington Football Team (new name: the Washington Abject Apology) was the least of its problems… (No, seriously, the shit with the cheerleaders?? Wha’ the f…??? I could see that as the plot of some soft-porn vid, but for real in the 2000s???) ) The best bit was when the NFL took over the investigation into the toxic culture in Washington. Hired independent counsel Beth Wilkinson to look into instances of bullying, misogyny, and sexual harrassment. > [@NFL.com](#): > > Based on Wilkinson’s review, Commissioner Roger Goodell came to the conclusion that Washington had operated “both generally and particularly for women,” per the league statement, in a “highly unprofessional” manner that included bullying, intimidation, multiple allegations of sexual harassment and a “general lack of respect in the workplace.” It would be interesting to read her report. Except that you can’t - the NFL didn’t require her to write one. The one article I saw said that she had, but that the NFL refused to release it. John Gruden is a tool who deserves the obloquy he’s now receiving, but he and Bruce Allen are the only ones who will be sacrificed to appease the public. Dan Snyder is an owner, and the NFL is closing ranks to defend him; he’ll get to skate. ---
**Author:** ![TheGunIsMightierThanThePen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thegunismightierthanthepen/32/2981_2.png) [@TheGunIsMightierThanThePen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheGunIsMightierThanThePen)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/34 "2021-10-15T04:08:42Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I hope he slinks away into obscurity after this. I dunno, I see a bright future for him in Republican politics, if he so chooses. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > But the NFL was already getting antsy about how this would play out and wanted to bring things to a head and realized the release of one email wasn’t going to do it. So, more got out there “somehow” , and that was that. But if the NFL controlled the possession of the emails from the beginning, why would they even release the first email at all, which they know would get everyone digging into their sordid mess? Something doesn’t smell right here. My guess is someone on the inside was affiliated with the Raiders, and they had a personal vendetta against Gruden and/or disapproved of Gruden’s coaching proficiency, so they deliberately leaked the emails to trigger a chain of events leading to Gruden’s ouster. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/35 "2021-10-15T04:25:02Z")
It seems obvious to me that Gruden was targeted by somebody. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/36 "2021-10-15T04:32:42Z")
Yeah, that’s my implication. But it looks like it’s not just him anymore. There are apparently several emails from Bruce Allen with similar content and from Jeff Pash (a long time NFL general counsel) showing the league office wasn’t taking allegations very seriously in private. > **[N.F.L.’s Top Lawyer Had Cozy Relationship With Washington Team President...](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/14/sports/football/nfl-washington-emails-jeff-pash.html)** > > Jeff Pash, the league’s general counsel, brokered penalties, discussed a cheerleading scandal and received perks in emails with the former president of the Washington Football Team. Tip of the iceberg, I guess. Parts of the whole sordid mess are coming out. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/37 "2021-10-15T05:40:49Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > It seems obvious to me that Gruden was targeted by somebody. I’ve seen it suggested that “somebody” goes right to the top, given that Gruden referred to Goodell by a homophobic slur in one of the emails. Whoever it was, they had good enough relations with both the WSG and the NYT to leak a scoop to each within 72 hours. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/38 "2021-10-15T15:53:26Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > When this first came out, the impression I got was that it was one email. I believe it _was_ only one email when it first came out - the one where he referred to Bruce Allen having ‘lips as big as Michelin tires’ or something similar. Gruden played it off as a metaphor for lying and not a racial trope, and I honestly think he would have survived it if that had been all. Then, several more emails came out demonstrating that this was not a one-off lapse of judgment, but rather a terrible human putting his thoughts into writing for all time. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/39 "2021-10-15T15:57:34Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > I believe it _was_ only one email when it first came out - the one where he referred to Bruce Allen having ‘lips as big as Michelin tires’ or something similar. Clarification: that email was sent from Gruden to Bruce Allen, but the derogatory, racist comparison was being made in reference to DeMaurice Smith, the executive director of the NFL Players Association (the player union), who is an African American. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480/40 "2021-10-15T15:58:29Z")
You’re right, of course. Apologies for being sloppy… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-gruden-resigns-as-coach-for-being-a-bigot/952480.md?page=3)