# John Kerry and his SUV **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 26, 2004, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287 "2004-06-26T06:23:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/41 "2004-06-27T20:59:25Z")
I don’t get the whole “wealthy” argument. Are they afraid that Kerry is going to go and give Heinz all the government condiment contracts or something? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/42 "2004-06-27T21:59:51Z")
It’s the same loopy argument the right uses against Michael Moore; “He’s rich, so he can’t speak for the common man!” Which (again) is as stupid as saying only sick doctors can tend to patients, or that only geriatric people should work in nursing homes… ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/43 "2004-06-27T22:06:47Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Limbaugh’s list looks a bit suspicious. Minor quibble…for people (like **rjung** ) who seem to be dismissive of the “list” because of Limbaugh. It’s not a “Limbaugh list”, it’s from the **Boston Herald** (says so at the top of the web page) ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/44 "2004-06-27T22:18:18Z")
[I don’t see this article in the Boston Herald](http://news.bostonherald.com/search/?searchSite=true&keyword=Kerry+SUV&mode=all&sorting=score&searchSite=recent) ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/45 "2004-06-27T22:29:09Z")
My error: Correct link for above should be [this](http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/bostonherald/results.html?st=advanced&QryTxt=Kerry+SUV) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/46 "2004-06-27T22:35:45Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s the same loopy argument the right uses against Michael Moore; “He’s rich, so he can’t speak for the common man!” Which (again) is as stupid as saying only sick doctors can tend to patients, or that only geriatric people should work in nursing homes… Of course, this is the line of attack Democrats have used against rich Republicans since time immemorial, so I’m glad to hear it finally disavowed. But the argument against rich Democrats isn’t that they are rich, but that they preach conservation and ‘good stewardship’ and environmental frugality, while they themselves live lives of great excess. They talk about how people don’t need to buy SUVs, while they themselves own private jets, multiple homes, huge speedboats, and other trappings of the extremely wealthy. And of course, they can’t travel anywhere without hauling around a huge entourage of sycophants, thus turning a simple vacation trip into a huge industrial exercise. So people like John Kerry simply open themselves up to criticism when they start telling people to ‘live responsibly’. My answer would be, "Tell you what, John. If you really worry about global warming so much, how about taking the freakin’ bus for a change. And you might consider giving up at least one or two of your five residences. And you know that Gulfstream you own? How about flying coach with the rest of us? I’ll give Ralph Nader credit here - from what I know, he lives the life he preaches. No multi-million dollar home carved out of pristine wilderness for him. No private jets, no speedboats. Good for him. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/47 "2004-06-27T22:38:42Z")
The list is in the Boston Herald editorial section with no author listed. Also, the page the article was linked from is not affiliated with Mr. Limbaugh and [is sub-standard Republican par for the course](http://www.rushonline.com/) that probably is publishing that and other articles out of copyright. It also links to “fake” pages like [this](http://cjtf7.com/coalition-news/humanitarian-efforts.htm). Go Republicans! We don’t lie at ALL! ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/48 "2004-06-27T22:42:18Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > But the argument against rich Democrats isn’t that they are rich, but that they preach conservation and ‘good stewardship’ and environmental frugality, while they themselves live lives of great excess. They talk about how people don’t need to buy SUVs, while they themselves own private jets, multiple homes, huge speedboats, and other trappings of the extremely wealthy. And Republicans preach about fighting terrorism while tripping over themselves to protect their Saudi buddies. And make deceitful websites calling people liars. O\_o ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/49 "2004-06-27T22:46:13Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > But the argument against rich Democrats isn’t that they are rich, but that they preach conservation and ‘good stewardship’ and environmental frugality, while they themselves live lives of great excess. They talk about how people don’t need to buy SUVs… Once again, could you please provide some direct quotes or cites? I’m not doubting your claims, but I’d like to read the original wording to judge for myself, and my admittedly brief web search hasn’t found one. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/50 "2004-06-28T01:19:19Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Of course, this is the line of attack Democrats have used against rich Republicans since time immemorial, so I’m glad to hear it finally disavowed. People don’t distrust the Republicans because they’re rich, but because they support policies that benefit the rich over everyone else. ( **Cough_Ahem_BushTaxCuts\*Cough** ) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/51 "2004-06-28T01:34:07Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > People don’t distrust the Republicans because they’re rich, but because they support policies that benefit the rich over everyone else. ( **Cough_Ahem_BushTaxCuts\*Cough** ) This is exactly the point that friend **Sam** is missing. It is far different to be wealthy and try to do things that reduce the disparity between the rich and poor. Acting against one’s own interest is a pretty strong indication that one’s motivations are pretty damn heartfelt. Being rich should not obviate the need to do the right thing. Being wealthy and doing everything you can to make yourself more wealthy at the expense of others in need should go against any code of ethics one chooses to employ. Bush, however, thinks it is a funny joke to speak for the “haves and the have-mores.” One thing we liberals and democrats have to do is figure out how so many hard working people have been duped into voting against their own self interest for so long. I don’t think there should be anything wrong with fighting class warfare. It has actually been being waged for some time now. Most people just aren’t aware of it. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/52 "2004-06-28T01:42:40Z")
Right, I don’t disagree with Republicans because they’re rich - I disagree with them because they’re wrong. :-p The fact that most Democrat legistlators are rich isn’t surprising - the majority of legistlators in general are upper class lawyers and the like, or at least went to a university. In fact, it has been stated on this board (I don’t recall the accuracy) that there are more millionaire Dems in Congress than Reps. But just because someone IS rich doesn’t mean they will do everything to look out for their rich buddies (as the allegation usually stands). Get that? Someone being something does not equal someone doing something. Black != criminal. Rich != Republican. Write it on a sticky note and put it on your monitor. ---
**Author:** ![pervert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbe5ce/32.png) [@pervert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pervert)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/53 "2004-06-28T02:00:41Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > It is far different to be wealthy and try to do things that reduce the disparity between the rich and poor. Acting against one’s own interest is a pretty strong indication that one’s motivations are pretty damn heartfelt. Being rich should not obviate the need to do the right thing. Ok, but if you are wealthy, if you truly believe that poor people need help, then why are you wealthy? Is it not a simply matter to give away your wealth? Isn’t then, the existance of such wealth in the hands of someone who believes that wealth should be given to others evidence that he does not truly believe the rhetoric? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/54 "2004-06-28T02:08:20Z")
Well, sure, but not all at once! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/55 "2004-06-28T02:11:04Z")
> [@pervert](#): > > Ok, but if you are wealthy, if you truly believe that poor people need help, then why are you wealthy? Is it not a simply matter to give away your wealth? Isn’t then, the existance of such wealth in the hands of someone who believes that wealth should be given to others evidence that he does not truly believe the rhetoric? It’s nice to have had the good exchange that I did with you in the other thread, because otherwise I would have read this (no offense intended) as a truly ignorant comment. Christ was christlike. Everyone else is human. Is it necessary for someone to give away everything they have to be helpful to others? Isn’t there a range of help. Do you donate to charity? Well then, why do you still have a computer and internet connection? Do you give blood? Why are you still living then? Seriously, do you not really see that there is a broad range from being rich and calloused to the needs of others (what some call compassionate conservativism), being rich and caring about the needs of others (and using power and influence to make positive change for the needy, and heck, even the not so needy in the middle classes) and being a martyr and saint? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/56 "2004-06-28T02:15:35Z")
> [@pervert](#): > > Ok, but if you are wealthy, if you truly believe that poor people need help, then why are you wealthy? Is it not a simply matter to give away your wealth? No. Especially not in the case of the Kerry-Heinzes. Much of their (well, her) wealth is invested in her company. Simply changing it into cash and giving it away would be a minor economic disaster. “Helping the poor” is not the same thing as “giving all of your money to the poor” - while it may be a nice gesture and good in the short term, it is not necessarily the best move in the long term. Investing that money in research, humanitarian aid groups, and jobs is the best thing to do. As **Tuckerfan** brought up in another thread, if he had $100 million, he could (he claims) reverse desertification in sub-Saharan Africa and Central Asia. This would greatly increase crop yield and feed millions of starving people in both regions. Why hasn’t anyone done it? Good question. I certainly won’t defend Kerry for his lack of action. (note that in my above statement, I specifically mention “invest… [in] jobs” - this doesn’t mean give giant tax cuts to the wealthy and assume they will happily reinvest in the best interests of the lower classes) > [@](#): > > Isn’t then, the existance of such wealth in the hands of someone who believes that wealth should be given to others evidence that he does not truly believe the rhetoric? It is his wife’s money. _shrugs_ Maybe she’s a bitch. I don’t know, I don’t know her. But in any case, I don’t think that she would let him take the whole check book (literally). ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/57 "2004-06-28T02:32:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by pervert > Ok, but if you are wealthy, if you truly believe that poor people need help, then why are you wealthy? Is it not a simply matter to give away your wealth? There are many rich people who do their part in helping the less fortunate. Bill Gates for example. What has Bush or Cheney or Ken Lay done to help anyone except themselves or their peers? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/58 "2004-06-28T02:41:55Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > There are many rich people who do their part in helping the less fortunate. > > Bill Gates for example. > > What has Bush or Cheney or Ken Lay done to help anyone except themselves or their peers? Colin Powell has started (a) charitable organization(s) (I believe one for children with diseases). Funnily enough, he is one of the few Republicans leaders I (used to) respect. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/59 "2004-06-28T02:42:12Z")
**scr4:** No cites right now. You might want to look up Arianna Huffington - she was expounding about the evils of SUVs, until the press found out she drove a very large SUV. A Lincoln Navigator, I think it was. But I speak from personal experience. We have a friend who has a very famous husband, and they are quite wealthy. She also considers herself a staunch environmentalist. She invited us out to her island summer home, and proudly showed us how she was ‘living lightly on the land’ by building her home with earth berms, composting toilets, etc. One night while listening to her talk about how wasteful people were (and after having a few beers), I couldn’t help myself and mentioned that she could have lived even lighter by not building a home on a pristine island in the first place, since she already had an oceanside home worth well over a million dollars. I also pointed out that she drove an SUV, and that living on an island meant having to use that huge, fuel-guzzling ferry to get her out there and back. The rest of the night was rather frosty. She’s a great lady, and her husband is pretty cool too, but she has this huge blind spot in that she figured it was perfectly okay to tear up some virgin forest and build an island retreat, so long as she used a composting toilet system. And she never saw the hypocrisy of complaining about those people who live in average-sized homes but happen to drive vehicles that don’t get great gas mileage. I think she just sees herself as someone a little higher above the masses. The rules just don’t apply. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287/60 "2004-06-28T02:47:22Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > The rest of the night was rather frosty. She’s a great lady, and her husband is pretty cool too, but she has this huge blind spot in that she figured it was perfectly okay to tear up some virgin forest and build an island retreat, so long as she used a composting toilet system Perhaps she 1) never thought of it that way or 2) thought her use of such facilities were justified. I don’t know, I’m not her, and I don’t know much about the ins and outs of owning a summer house on an island. It doesn’t mean that she knowingly and willfully endeavoured to act in spite of her beliefs. For f\*s sake, I’m an environmentalist. Are you going to lambast me for going camping and using cabins made out of logs? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/john-kerry-and-his-suv/252287.md?page=4)